Gardens Cafe - what is going on?

[Hesmall1]

Came back from holiday to find that the Gardens Cafe is no longer child friendly!?!? This used to be a great place for Mums and Dads to meet, have lunch, cake and coffee with a great space for our little ones to toddle around (the back room). Searched around the Forum to see if there were any threads about this, but only found one about a children's music class being ousted. Any idea what happened there?

[oimissus]

yes, I'd like to know too. So disappointed that Tippee Toes is no longer able to use their back room, Kim is a great teacher and it was a really good group. The cafe has a big front room, I can't imagine on a weekday morning that they are so chockablock that they can't give their back room over to this.

[RhubarbGarden]

It's such a shame; this was the best place around to take toddlers to. I don't know if there has been a change in ownership or something, but my friends and I (we used to meet there with a pile a kids regularly) had felt increasing hostility towards us over the last couple of months, and so this sudden loss of the back room hasn't really come as a huge shock. They have clearly had a change of heart over welcoming mums and children.

Great shame, and in the current economic climate, I personally think rather rash but I'm no expert in cafe management!

[Otta]

Never been there, but m a big Tippee Toes / Kim fan, and frankly, I hope it comes back to bite them in the arse!

Stupid stupid decision in this area.

I know there are threads on here from people complaining about child friendly places, but I bet these people won't suddenly start going to this cafe.

[jollybaby]

That's a shame - when I was on mat leave it was one of my favourite places to go - child friendly without feeling like you were eating in a creche. So have they moved the deli counter from the front area then?

[Pickle]

It seems to be a very strange business approach - surely tapping into the Mum and baby Market during the day makes financial sense?! Will be interesting to see whether it stays busy or not.

[womanofdulwich]

mayebe those without babies will go there instead? The cafe in Peckham Rye park is great though?

[Kimmy1080]

Oimissus and Otta - thank you both for your kind words about Tippee Toes :)

My understanding is the insurance premium required to cover children's groups would be, and I will quote from the owner, 'astronomical'. I really have no clue whether this is why they have made the Gallery (room at the back) into a deli but the insurance issue could also apply to groups of mums attending the cafe with small children, hence your feelings about the establishment being unwelcoming to families with young children. I know the Gardens were always very concerned about buggies blocking exit doors (health & safety). I don't know any more than this, sorry.

Best Wishes

Kim

[awilliams123]

Well I've never been in there without a group of people with children, and it's always been obvious that the majority of the patrons were mums and dads with young children. I imagine that alienating that large of a customer base couldn't have been a desicion made lightly. I am disappointed as well, although the coffee/food/cakes were nothing out of the ordinary, the venue with the back room open for kids to play was a massive plus. Doubt we'll be going in there again now, and my friends and I were regulars.

[amyw]

i go there quite regularly since having my baby. both with toddlers and with babies only.

they are always very nice to me and very welcoming of the children even when crying etc.

when they were closed on weds one of the guys came out to explain why and said he hoped we would come back again - they are definitely child friendly.

it is a shame to lose the back room though.

[sillywoman]

I used to arrange the majority of my postnatal reunions in there for exactly that reason. It was spacious and had plenty of room for pushchairs and buggies, plus the great sofa's. I'm gutted that they've changed it all. Combined with the also newly done and now equally useless-for-baby-groups Green & Blue I'm a bit stumped for anywhere spacious enough to meet all my Mums, Dads & babies for a catch-up coffee.

You'd think that if anywhere was going to have a cafe catering to baby groups it would be East Dulwich, but apparently not :( Well, I'll be taking my business elsewhere (when I can think of somewhere to take it!) and I hope other disgruntled buggy pushing parents will too.

[Fuschia]

If its daytime/ weekdays try the bread of life cafe, sw

[amyw]

what about the actress SW? its pretty quiet during the day and the bench seats are comfortable for breastfeeding.

[millsa]

I've never liked it as my first few visits were in the cold autumn of 2010 with a newborn baby and they never had the heating on (or so low we always had to ask to turn up). And the coffee was average and the staff grumpy (probably too cold!). But I second the previous comments that the back room was great for toddlers. It will be interesting to see if they will survive - maybe we will be proved wrong thinking that catering for people with no children isn't a good idea in ED? :)

[Hesmall1]

Thanks all. Glad it isn't just me surprised by the change. As an FYI, I had lunch at The Actress today and saw a huge group of Mums & newborns breastfeeding away with loads of prams. Staff seemed to be managing the crowd just fine. I got a table and highchair for my LO and two friends and there was another independent table with three adults, two highchairs and two prams all being happily served very fine pizza.

Had used The Gardens for my own NCT group meets, had attended infant Health & Safety training there, and had always seen loads of prams, Mums and Dads there both weekdays and weekends, so just surprised by their latest business move. Please do share any other local family friendly hotspots. Will check out Bread of Life cafe (haven't heard of it) and agree with Womanofdulwich, the cafe in Peckham Park is great, especially when the weather is good.

[ClareC]

The Plough is a great daytime venue for mums and babies. Loads of space for buggies and child friendly. No enclosed play area so not so easy with toddlers but definitely recommend.

[onefifty]

I was disappointed to see the change when I stopped in today with my daughter. There is a small basket of toys near the highchairs but being out in the main area I didn't stay for long. The drinks and baked goods are average so the real draw for me was the child friendly environment. Moving the deli counter into that back space seems a strange business move as you can't really see it. When I walked in I thought they'd done away with it altogether.

[Pugwash]

The Bread of Life Cafe is situated in Christ Church at the Lordship Lane end of Barry Road open Monday - Fridays.

Christ Church also has the Fair Trade Centre open 10 - 4 daily, and 10 - 1 on Sats.

Home cooked food, junior and small appetite menus, high chairs. Breakfasts, lunches and snacks

[Bellenden Belle]

This is a really interesting development.

For years that building was shut with planning permissions for a cafe / restaurant constantly refused because of its location in a residential area. Have a look at the site's history of planning applications:

http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=20906

One of the key differences which I suspect led to planning permission finally being granted was the "Change of use of the ground floor to cafe/restaurant (Class A3) with a community room (Class D1) for meetings and local artist display function".

I don't have a background in planning - but a quick google defines D1 as "D1: Non-Residential Institutions - Surgeries, health centres, cr?ches, nurseries, day centres, art galleries, museums, libraries, halls, churches and non-residential education and training centres."

Seems to me that if they have moved a deli into that space they have actually changed its usage, depriving the community of the very space that no doubt contributed them to being granted permission to use that site in the first place. This makes me very cross indeed - I have asked Cllr James Barber in the main East Dulwich issues section to investigate.

[Strawbs]

Hi all

Just to say I was the one that organised the meet at the actress and they were amazing!! In my exhausted state I didn't book but dropped in at 12 saying in 30 mins you will have 20 mums and prams arriving and they were gold!! Made space for us, as more prams arrived helped us jiggle them around to make space even dug my coat out from my pram for me that was a distance away and I was feedin my son.. We will definitely be going back.. I'm organising the next one at the plough as I hear it caters to mums and babies ie lots of space but we will defo go back to the actress..

I need to find a venue for a morning tea also and had hoped the electrical cafe would be it but might try bread o life instead..

Xx

[Fuschia]

Bob, that's very interesting and makes the Change even worse.

I wonder if theY always intended community space to be just temporary

[awilliams123]

Bellenden Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is a really interesting development.

> For years that building was shut with planning

> permissions for a cafe / restaurant constantly

> refused because of its location in a residential

> area. Have a look at the site's history of

> planning applications:

> http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgConvert2PDF.

> aspx?ID=20906

>

> One of the key differences which I suspect led to

> planning permission finally being granted was the

> "Change of use of the ground floor to

> cafe/restaurant (Class A3) with a community room

> (Class D1) for meetings and local artist display

> function".

>

> I don't have a background in planning - but a

> quick google defines D1 as "D1: Non-Residential

> Institutions - Surgeries, health centres, cr?ches,

> nurseries, day centres, art galleries, museums,

> libraries, halls, churches and non-residential

> education and training centres."

>

> Seems to me that if they have moved a deli into

> that space they have actually changed its usage,

> depriving the community of the very space that no

> doubt contributed them to being granted permission

> to use that site in the first place. This makes me

> very cross indeed - I have asked Cllr James Barber

> in the main East Dulwich issues section to

> investigate.

That is VERY interesting indeed...they absolutely have changed the use.

[karter]

Have not checked out the new layout of the gardens but will do soon.

We had a little group in the actress yesterday too with babies, the staff and food were great. The massive nct meetup was pretty impressive have to say and the staff kept their cool. nice one.

The Bishop is also excellent for baby meetups and food.

Other establishments in the area, please update and improve your menus.

[reren]

It is such a shame to lose the gardens - and as others have said I'm so dismayed by the change I can't see bothering to go back even if I were without my toddler. I thought they had been so clever in the way they had it set up - keeping the noisiest toddling kids mostly as the back and allowing the front to be used by those w small babies or older kids or those without kids. I feel very put out by it and I reckon the management would be smart to respond to this post and explain their decision. Maybe there is a good explanation. Certainly in the absence of an explanation, its made me feel very negatively about one of my favorite places in east dulwich. Dont even get me started about green and blacks....

[awilliams123]

I saw a post in another section on this forum, someone proposing to hold business meetups at the Gardens. Maybe they want to try and sell more beer and wine and less lattes and lemonades...