Toddler activities that are not suitable for toddlers rant.

[sophiechristophy]

Ok, I had an experience this week, it was at a toddler and parent group, and it has left me extremely annoyed.

Why do people run toddler sessions that aren't suitable for toddlers? By this I mean sessions that expect toddlers to sit in one place, sometimes for extended periods of time, where they are expected to follow instructions exactly, where their natural curiosity is limited and even rejected because it is inconvenient perhaps to the session leader?

Why don't all toddler sessions give toddlers the freedom that they need to explore, experience and be themselves?

It makes me so mad when you as a parent of a toddler are expected to reign your toddler in from doing what is just NORMAL and NATURAL toddler things. It is disrespectful to the needs of the toddler, and offensive to the parent, who is usually paying for the privilege.

ARGH!

Rant over.

Toddler session leaders, if you are reading this, please respect the needs of the toddlers in your sessions, and adjust you activities/expectations accordingly. I say this as a session leader myself - I run toddler cookery sessions - so I know it is possible to create a hospitable atmosphere for toddlers.

[bluesuperted]

I wrote a similar rant last week on a different thread. I have stopped attending groups like this as in my opinion classes where there is too much expectation and not enough flexibility/understanding of developmental needs are that way to justify cost or fit in with strange notions society has that toddlers should start sitting and be quiet as early as possible. I strongly believe it's linked to the too much too soon education perception/reality in this country. I read an interesting thing the other day that we expect children to learn to write at a time when it is not only difficult from an attention pespective but physiologically painful to their growing, still undeveloped hands and actual motor abilities, I find this madness!

Hope you find some wonderful, exploratory toddler activities soon!

x

[Fuschia]

Only one of my four has ever shown any inclination to cooperate with any class ... Dd who started ballet at 2.5 - she was desperate to do it

Rest totally uncooperative

Ah actually I tell a lie, twins enjoying 15 mins piano since 3.5

But in general they are not sitting still children

Saves me a fortune anyway

We do soft play

Park

Swimming

Running around shouting

Wrestling

Books

Cutting things up and sticking them down

Emptying my cupboards

Etc

[ClareC]

I've only been to one class locally where the teacher had absolutely no idea how toddlers work. I didn't go back! There are lots of great sessions that do accept toddlers acting normally. Little Bubbles and Beas bop spring to mind.

Can you pm me the name of the class concerned? I would rather know these things in advance of trying classes.

Thankyou

X

[Monkey]

Ah ladies you're making me feel so much better. I work full-time so have very little experience of playgroups. I now take my daughter to dancing classes on a Saturday and freaked out when I saw her refusing to participate (all the other little girls were well behaved.) Now I know that I am not alone! Thank you!

[Ruth_Baldock]

Was this Bookstart, sophie??? We get this a lot, seb doesn't ever sit down. Ever. I agree with everythin you said 110%

[Fuschia]

Oh

Sing and sign

Always been brilliant

[Yak]

It's self selecting, innit. If your kids are the types who like to sit down, watch a leader, follow rules etc then I suspect they are more likely to go to "classes". But if you have toddlers who just want to do their own thing then I wouldn't bother. It's a pain when free sessions are organised more like formal classes - they shouldn't be marketed as such.

I do think it is particularly hard when the weather is horrible and options like the park etc are more limited.

[Otta]

I wish we attended some of the same groups as you people. I'm always convinced our daughter is the only one, as she runs around waving the baby Jesus that she's nicked from the crib, whilst ALL the other kids sit like angels!

[Belle]

Oh my god, totally been there. As I think I've said before, we were fine with sing and sign and little bubbles,w here we were lucky to have teachers who didn't mind my son running amok, but elsewhere I used to get really stressed out. Then I realised it wasn't fair of me to expect my son (then under 2) to sit nicely if that wasn't what he was inclined to do. He's at nursery several mornings now so we're not enrolled in any more classes and even there they didn't force the sitting down issue at all when he started, saying 2 really is too little to expect that. Now he's nearly 3, he is encouraged to follow instructions, but they are not overly strict. I feel bad now that I used to constantly tell him not to run around at classes etc, will be much more relaxed with my baby (though sense he's not quite the same tearaway spirit!).

We went to one quite expensive class where he was repeatedly told to sit down at 'circle time', and to go in the right direction doing activities, when he was just turned 2 - I found it so stressful that I stopped going even though I'd paid up for a term. Have sadly though had similar experiences at two free classes too. I do understand that it's not on if the child is so disruptive as to spoil it for others, but surely just running round/exploring/not sitting still every minute is all fairly harmless? Otta - I always felt like he was the only one too. We clearly need some groups for the runaways :))

There's a lovely bit in Steve Biddulph's book about letting your toddler explore even if it means it takes 2 hours to get somewhere (obv not always practical) - that, plus a blog post Fuschia once posted about toddlers have really made me stop trying to get my son to conform so much. Obviously that doesn't apply to any aggressive behaviour etc.

[Kimmy1080]

Hi Sophie

I'm a class leader and for me, allowing toddlers to explore is of paramount importance. I always try to reassure parents with a smile that it is perfectly fine if their little ones do not want to sit still as I realise that certain aspects of the session will grab their attention more than others.

It is dissappointing that you have had such a negative experience but I would encourage you to mention it to the class leader, if not in person then perhaps by email as constructive criticism is so important in order to see improvement.

Best of luck with your other activities and please don't let one or two bad experiences put you off trying other activities.

Kim

[Saffron]

We went to one music class where my daughter, then around 18 months, burst into tears after being told to sit down, because she wanted to stand up and dance! Needless to say we didn't go back to that one.

We do Boppin' Bunnies music classes now instead. Our leader, Kat, is sooo tolerant and friendly. There's plenty of space for dancing and running etc.

We also ran into a bit of difficulty with Tumble Tots, as I've posted previously. I even got what I felt like was a telling off by one of the leaders! It was our first --and only-- class. I've heard good things about Diddy Dance but not had a chance to try it yet.

It's not only annoying for your LO, but also really disheartening as a parent when classes aren't conducted in an age appropriate and fun way. I totally agree that the "too much, too soon" approach could be damaging for some children. I would even say this applies to older children, and that children seem to get far too much homework too early. This article is from the States, but the situation seems similar here too. http://www.education.com/magazine/article/The_Homework_Debate/ I was sitting at my friend's kitchen table with her 5yo son before dinner one evening, and he was nearly in tears over his homework. It was just "busy work" as far as I could see, a repetitive hand-writing assignment, and his dexterity wasn't up to it. Poor little fellow. My friend was being very good and patient about it, though she was obviously annoyed with the assignment too.

[RhubarbGarden]

Diddi dance is good; nicely chaotic, and Gymboree is great because it's all about running around and exploring. It is rather expensive but I think it's worth it especially for very active toddlers who don't like sitting still.

[crystal7]

I've been there. My daughter was always the one trying to get out of the ire escape or running into the loos at singing. I hate it when I feel like my parenting is on show as everyone watches me grapple with my toddler! Saffron I too have felt told off by people leading these groups when my daughter didn't do as she was told despite the fact that she wasn't disrupting the other children. At nearly 3 she is much more inclined to sit still these days (even managed a trip to the theatre over xmas) but I still try and stick with activities involving mostly free/exporatory play. We do Diddi Dance once a week and it's fantastic although I wouldn't recommend for under 2s, E didn't start to love it until at east 2.5 (insisted on going though but didn't always take part).

[dulwichgirl2]

You are entitled to your view of how toddlers should be.

Does it occur to you that others might have differing views and might have brought up their children differently?

[Saffron]

Yes, it occurs to me that other people have differnt views, and that is exactly why I wouldn't criticise a parent whose child doesn't behave the same as mine. I tolerate others with patience and compassion, and I expect the same in return in a civilised society (though I am frequently disappointed, hmmm). xx

[sophiechristophy]

Dulwichgirl2, I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.

[bluesuperted]

When I was studying, we often referred to Moodley, Cooper and Reynell's attention levels from 1970s; this is an NHS cribsheet I used to refer to in clinic but is really lay-person friendly and I think really helpful in being aware of what each age of child can developmentally do (on average).

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2216&p=0

Between 1 and 2 years, toddlers do need to be engaged in activities they find interesting, for some that will include sitting quietly, for many that will not. Even at age 3-4, keeping attention will be a big task for teachers, class leaders, parents etc. This inability to attend for long periods is not indicative of bad behaviour, it is to do with cognition levels and level of distractedness at the stage in question.

[sophiechristophy]

great link bluesuperted! thanks!

[fuzzyboots]

Well I have to say I agree - it's unrealistic to expect toddlers to sit still through an activity/class, unless that happens to be a) their personal preference and/or b) how they feel on that particular day at that particular time.

I despair of reading about toddlers being required to sit and pay attention. In my (Sing and Sign) classes, Stage 2, which is aimed at toddlers, completely recognises that most toddlers NEED to be on the move in order to be learning. It's pointless trying to make a mobile, busy toddler sit still - and in fact, only asking for trouble/conflict/emotional battles. Many toddlers need to physically connect with their environment in order to understand it - that means they need to interact with things and people and use their whole bodies to do so, iyswim.

It is far better to provide an environment where the toddler's mobility is embraced and welcomed. In my classes, I see that they NEED to explore the space they're in. I have a few rules all based around promoting children's safety for themselves and others, but other than that, they are at liberty to spend the entire class crawling/walking around, etc.. .If you try to force an active toddler to sit still, all that happens is an immediate emotional battle and distressed child and stressed, embarassed parent. If a child is being unsafe then we suggest that they have a brief time out to calm down away from the prying eyes of other children/adults, and then return when they're ready and able to join in the class.

I'm sad that people running classes/activities aimed specifically at toddlers seem to be failing to appreciate the essential nature of toddlers! My son was a nightmare at Diddidance, which I absolutely loved, but he was totally contrary and I was the one who couldn't cope with that - not him! His teacher was lovely and very understanding though. I think that the class/activity leaders who require toddlers to sit still for lengthy periods cannot have thought through what it is they're doing/who it is they're offering it to! My classes have a regular structure with sitting still, hands on and movement elements. The classes deliberately peak and trough in terms of engaging the children so that they can dip in and out with their concentration/involvement. Every child is different and responds differently to the classes - it is up to the skill of the class/activity leader to adapt to the children present (within reason!).

I'm delighted that Fuchsia describes us a brilliant :) Thank you :) :) :) :) - we try very hard to be the best we can for you and your toddlers. I can't tell you how much we all LOVE teaching our toddler classes - the children are such fun and it's a privilege for us to be involved with their development. Sigh....

I'll stop now before I go too gooey about them - but they really are a delight ;)

BTW, if anyone coming to Sing and Sign classes DOES feel that their child's behaviour has been frowned upon/criticised, I'd like to know so that I can get to the bottom of it! That's not how we want you to feel about your S&S experience.

All best wishes,

Trish/Fuzzyboots

Sing and Sign Southwark & Lambeth

[minder]

I know exactly what dulwichgirl2 means.

If you take your child to a parent/toddler group and let them have a free run of everything, surely sitting down for 5-10 minutes shouldn't be too much? I despair of the toddlers running around when I'm trying to do the singing at the end and the parents just letting their child getting on with it! My voice is hoarse trying to sing above everything going on, as I'm sure some of the other group leader's are!

bluesuperted - keeping attention at 3-4 years is a big task for teachers but why try to rush through formal learning then?

I've worked in a reception class with 4-5 year olds who couldn't keep still and have disrupted the whole class and the learning of others. This would be a third of the class but this is enough to affect the ones who can sit still and want to learn.

Early foundations are a good thing in some ways.

[hamilh]

I take my 22 month old daughter to the 'Melody Bear' classes at South London Dance School in Herne Hill. My daughter loves it (one reason is because she gets to wear a very pretty skirt!) and I think the teacher ('Miss Naomi') is really good because she balances lively and energetic dancing with calmer periods of sitting and listening (and some talking).

It's well organised and Miss Naomi understands what toddlers can manage.

Some children struggle with the sitting still parts of the lesson but it is amazing to see that their concentration improves each week.

My friend brings her son as well and it's good for boys as although its dance its not girly at all.

Then the good thing is that when they are old enough, they join the dance classes that are without mums and I get a 45 minute break on a Sat morning! Can't wait for that!

[Monkey]

Yes, behaviour can improve as I have just discovered. My daughter hated Melody Bear for the first weeks, absolutely hated it. I even posted about it on this forum. Yesterday, however, she said she wanted to go dancing and behaved very well during the lesson. Today she wanted to go back and kept talking about Miss Naomi and Miss Vicky. I have no idea what she'll be like next week though!