Southwark School Street Closure Scheme

[mrwb]

Surely the barriers couldn't be make permanent or if they were, there would still have to be an easy way to remove them?

What if there is a medical emergency, police incident or Fire in the closed off area, or even at the school itself during the closure time?

[jamesmcash]

Hi all

It's great to see that this initiative is being discussed on the Forum! I have been discussing this with a number of the schools in the Goose Green area and there is a lot of interest. It is probable that we would look at something around Goose Green Primary School initially but there is potential for it at a number of other schools. Of course, as with all these schemes, the devil is in the detail so before anything is implemented i would want to ensure there is adequate discussion with both the school and the local community.

Best wishes

James

[first mate]

James,

Think the devil will only be apparent if and when a number of schools around ED implement this at the same time. The first few will not make much of an impact but will set a precedent for others to follow suit. That is why it needs proper consultation across the community, not the council favoured piecemeal approach.

I should add that when a number of schools were in the development phase- Harris ED and Charter the issue of lack of parking and drop off points was raised many times. I seem to recall soothing assurances that parents and pupils would mostly walk or cycle.

[karpar]

Goodrich Scool would be a prime candidate for this. It is chaotic, especially in the morning, and there is no lollipop person at any of the surrounding streets. The school has two mini roundabouts next to the school, adding to the problem of crossing roads to get to the school. I suspect that the council will be reluctant to implement anything as Dunstans Rd is a popular rat run for commuters too.

[Passiflora]

Bessemer Grange should have had CEO's (otherwise known as traffic wardens) patrolling the school at drop-off and pick-up times, prior to the street closure. Why didn't they if there was such a parking problem? The head must have known about parking issues but the head has now imposed other parking issues on the local surrounding community i.e. inside and outside of the yellow gates.

I've noticed that the two disabled parking bays directly opposite the school are due to be taken out (notices on lamp-posts recently) but nothing about the zig zag lines directly outside the school so what's the point of them?

So now the surrounding area have to put up with cars parked on double yellow lines, across driveways, across zebra crossing zig-zags, neighbours cars being damaged. This is just around the corner from Bessemer Grange and this also impacts on children's safety.

The area is suddenly (since last Sept/Oct) being patrolled by CEO's on foot and in cars but they are reluctant to issue any fines in the area. I've spoken to them regularly about the problem in the area since the Street Closure but they all seem very friendly with the parents driving into the school.

[Sonners]

We live near Goodrich and often have our driveway blocked by inconsiderate parents. We have been very surprised by the school?s lack of engagement on the subject, as all they suggested is that we speak to Southwark parking enforcement (which we are happy to do) when it would be helpful if they would also offer to speak to their parents. Making our lives more difficult due to inconsiderate parents seems unfair. Surely parking wardens handing out tickets to discourage dangerous parking would be more effective?

It is only a morning issue around us in any case so I hope any approach would not impact around pick up times. I often leave home around 3pm and get back around 4pm and there is never the same problem then.

[first mate]

How odd that wardens would not issue fines for dangerous parking. Have Southwark instructed them not to, I wonder?

Passiflira Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bessemer Grange should have had CEO's (otherwise

> known as traffic wardens) patrolling the school at

> drop-off and pick-up times, prior to the street

> closure. Why didn't they if there was such a

> parking problem? The head must have known about

> parking issues but the head has now imposed other

> parking issues on the local surrounding community

> i.e. inside and outside of the yellow gates.

>

> I've noticed that the two disabled parking bays

> directly opposite the school are due to be taken

> out (notices on lamp-posts recently) but nothing

> about the zig zag lines directly outside the

> school so what's the point of them?

>

> So now the surrounding area have to put up with

> cars parked on double yellow lines, across

> driveways, across zebra crossing zig-zags,

> neighbours cars being damaged. This is just

> around the corner from Bessemer Grange and this

> also impacts on children's safety.

>

> The area is suddenly (since last Sept/Oct) being

> patrolled by CEO's on foot and in cars but they

> are reluctant to issue any fines in the area.

> I've spoken to them regularly about the problem in

> the area since the Street Closure but they all

> seem very friendly with the parents driving into

> the school.

[tomskip]

Really, I think Goodrich School do their best with inconsiderate drivers and parkers but they don't have the resources to police the streets every day. The problem at Goodrich is exacerbated by having two nurseries almost directly opposite one of their main entrances.

[singalto]

Dangerous and thoughtless parking happens outside all schools. Parents keep their engines running both is summer and winter. They park on double yellow lines, in disabled bays. Parking attendants should do their job and fine any driver who breaks the rules. If that leads to confrontations, maybe taking a photo of cars and sending fines Through the post is needed. There is an obesity crisis among school children and yet parents want to park at the school gates!

[goldilocks]

Not to detract from the school streets discussion, but the parking enforcement point is an important and very related one. In terms of deterrents to driving school streets could work if it became more effort to drive than to walk, but not if people can park across driveways / on corners/ on double yellows.

I?ve seen all these things happen around goose green school at pick up time and the traffic warden being there but doing nothing about it and just waving to some of the parents involved. Even without school streets, proper enforcement of existing rules like not parking right up to junctions or on double yellows would make a huge difference to safety.

I think what the school streets add is an additional layer of environmental safety for our children but they need to come with proper enforcement or they won?t work as intended.

[edbloke]

As a cyclist and parent at Bessemer Grange, two things have become clear during the road closure there:

- it?s genuinely possible to see how the kids feel safer just outside their entrance, particularly at this school which is split across both sides of the road

- even with lots of traffic wardens and teachers around monitoring, it doesn?t reduce the stupidity of some drivers to stop their cars in the worst possible place, endangering the lives of anyone but their own kids

[singalto]

I saw a parking enforcement officer look at a car parked partly on the pavement on a corner with double yellow lines by a local school. The car was opposite the entrance to the school. The warden did absolutely nothing about it.why bother employing them?

[first mate]

They must have been directed not to enforce. The cynical side of me wonders if this is a deliberate ploy to add as much fuel as possible to the council drive for mass CPZ, yellow lines, road closures.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Monkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It will be disruptive for residents but, living

> opposite a local school and being witness to the

> utterly idiotic and dangerous driving of quite a

> lot of parents on a daily basis - even when the

> police are around - i?m 100% supportive of this

> new scheme.

^this (as someone who also lives opposite a school).

[Pugwash]

Inconsiderate parents/carers parking outside Goodrich school are well known to the local police who are frequently called out to deal with some of the more 'aggressive' parents.

Many years ago (25?) when our child was at St. Anthony school, members of the Friends of St. Anthony took turns over a few days to stand in front of the entrance mornings and afternoons and took down the registration numbers of cars blocking the school entrance, double parking and being a nuisance to neighbours, It was apparent after a few days there were 'regulars'. The registration details were given to the local police and I believe some of these parents were approached and given verbal warnings. I believe this was at the time police could issue tickets for parking offences.

[Passiflora]

jamesmcash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi all

>

> It's great to see that this initiative is being

> discussed on the Forum! I have been discussing

> this with a number of the schools in the Goose

> Green area and there is a lot of interest. It is

> probable that we would look at something around

> Goose Green Primary School initially but there is

> potential for it at a number of other schools. Of

> course, as with all these schemes, the devil is in

> the detail so before anything is implemented i

> would want to ensure there is adequate discussion

> with both the school and the local community.

>

> Best wishes

> James

Good luck with that idea James!

[DuncanW]

I'm a Bessemer Parent; I am delighted with the road closure and would recommend the initiative being deployed at other schools where practical. From what I can see, the school tried several methods over a sustained period of time to protect the children from the inconsiderate and dangerous habits of a minority of parent drivers. This seems to be the only thing that has been effective.

From what I notice, there hasn't been a massive shift in parking issues to surrounding roads. Parking around there has always been tight and remains so (I guess that's part of the reason some people park illegally by the school). But as I continue my onward journey up Woodfarrs or Dylways, there generally seem to be some spaces available. Further, the number of legal spaces in the closed area is minimal as most of it is covered by the school zig-zags.

With regards to the school's expansion and the distance that parents travel; according to the 2017 intake data, it's oversubscribed (the most-applied for school in the borough) and the furthest distance offered was 1223 metres. So the number of parents travelling from distance should be reducing, not the other way round.

[Passiflora]

DuncanW Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm a Bessemer Parent; I am delighted with the

> road closure and would recommend the initiative

> being deployed at other schools where practical.

> From what I can see, the school tried several

> methods over a sustained period of time to protect

> the children from the inconsiderate and dangerous

> habits of a minority of parent drivers. This seems

> to be the only thing that has been effective.

>

> From what I notice, there hasn't been a massive

> shift in parking issues to surrounding roads.

> Parking around there has always been tight and

> remains so (I guess that's part of the reason some

> people park illegally by the school). But as I

> continue my onward journey up Woodfarrs or

> Dylways, there generally seem to be some spaces

> available. Further, the number of legal spaces in

> the closed area is minimal as most of it is

> covered by the school zig-zags.

>

> With regards to the school's expansion and the

> distance that parents travel; according to the

> 2017 intake data, it's oversubscribed (the

> most-applied for school in the borough) and the

> furthest distance offered was 1223 metres. So the

> number of parents travelling from distance should

> be reducing, not the other way round.

Obviously you do not live in the area but as a bike rider of course you would be delighted with the scheme.

[singalto]

I think a number of parents drive to school to drop their children off and then drive to work. So living near the school doesn?t mean parents don?t drive.

[Sally Eva]

Passiflora Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DuncanW Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'm a Bessemer Parent; I am delighted with the

> > road closure and would recommend the initiative

> > being deployed at other schools where

> practical.

> > From what I can see, the school tried several

> > methods over a sustained period of time to

> protect

> > the children from the inconsiderate and

> dangerous

> > habits of a minority of parent drivers. This

> seems

> > to be the only thing that has been effective.

> >

> > From what I notice, there hasn't been a massive

> > shift in parking issues to surrounding roads.

> > Parking around there has always been tight and

> > remains so (I guess that's part of the reason

> some

> > people park illegally by the school). But as I

> > continue my onward journey up Woodfarrs or

> > Dylways, there generally seem to be some spaces

> > available. Further, the number of legal spaces

> in

> > the closed area is minimal as most of it is

> > covered by the school zig-zags.

> >

> > With regards to the school's expansion and the

> > distance that parents travel; according to the

> > 2017 intake data, it's oversubscribed (the

> > most-applied for school in the borough) and the

> > furthest distance offered was 1223 metres. So

> the

> > number of parents travelling from distance

> should

> > be reducing, not the other way round.

>

> Obviously you do not live in the area but as a

> bike rider of course you would be delighted with

> the scheme.

This message in support of the Bessemer Grange scheme starts "As a Bessemer parent......". Later on it says that the catchment area around the school is small and reducing. The claim to be a parent might not be true I recognise but if the message is taken at face value the straightforward implication is that the writer lives near the school. He does cycle.

[intexasatthe moment]

Unless Bessemer has an unusual oversubscription policy I can't see how they will go from pupils comong from a large area to pupils coming from a small area close to the school .

Surely those who live some way away will mostly have siblings who will be given priority for a place ?

Or have things changed ?

[Sally Eva]

This is OT really but if a school has been oversubscribed for 10 years and assuming that most people have 2 or 3 children 2 or 3 years apart,then the sibling group will last about 10 years. You can see that if people move away when the first child is at the school -- or lived quite a long way away when it was less in demand -- that the sibling groups will gradually come closer and closer to the school gate.

If people do move away and/or have a child a long time after the first then they may put the later child(ren) into a school closer to where they now live or where the eldest child goes to secondary school.

My daughter is in bristol but the local state primary has a catchment area of 350 yards -- Goodrich used to be similar and probably still is. At secondary level many schools don't take siblings as a matter of policy.

[suecharlie@btinterne]

I live quite close to Goodrich School. It looks like a majority of children do walk to school in the mornings. I do notice a number of parents who drive to the school. Unfortunately some then park on the double yellow lines on the junctions. These DYL's are there to improve sight lines which make it safer for parents and children, especially with prams and buggies to cross the road. In the afternoon some parents arrive early and park on the double yellow lines and leave their engines running especially now when the weather is cold. It is an offence to leave a vehicle in 'idling' mode when stationery. Many drivers are unaware of this when I challenge them. The rule is:-if a driver fails to turn off an idling vehicle when asked to do so by a warden of parking attendant, they could face a penalty charge notice.

I would appeal to parents to please walk to and from school. This would help with some of the congestion and promote a more healthy lifestyle.

Yours Sincerely

Councillor Charlie Smith

Goose Green Ward Member

[singalto]

We have the same problems with the Harris primary school. Idling engines all the year round too!

[Jacqui5254]

Where are the parking wardens/enforcement officers??

We don't need a hammer to crack a nut...it's reasonable behaviour that is required, not control, closures, 'residents only', new signs, barriers, street access times, etc.

This is crazy.

And to all the people in Herne Hill, those whose houses I parked outside when I took my children [and my friend's children in a car share] to school...I parked outside your house twice a day, Mon-Fri during term time and I thank you for the opportunity to do so.

I now live near a school so...feel free....It's now my turn to have a minor inconvenience.

Traffic wardens are the answer, not sleep walking into another Southwark Council initiative to control the roads, based on a 'good idea', and without any investigation into individual needs of the area.