Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill

[AylwardS]

There have been some valid points on here and if you have concerns use the trial period to see how your concerns are affected by differing traffic levels.

Traffic in South London generally has been worse for the last 4-6 weeks and its not always clear why. Last week I walked down a road at a time I?ve been walking down it regularly for the last couple of years and the traffic was worse than I?ve ever seen it. Someone else at the class I was going to had walked down the same road 5 minutes earlier and a bus and car had a minor accident, didn?t pull out of the traffic to swap details and access both ways to the High Street was affected. Given all the roadworks locally - those at Denmark Hill / Camberwell will go on until July - I?m not sure the trial will ever see ?normal? traffic levels.

Not all of the concerns expressed here are just down to the closure, though it may not be helping.

If air quality / pollution is a concern for you this page from TfL might be of interest https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/air-quality-advice?intcmp=41599.

[rendelharris]

rupert james Wrote:

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> Residents were against it.

If you mean residents of the street, no they weren't, responses to the consultation were a majority in favour.

> Before the bollards there was never ever a

> problem

Yes there was, I lived there then and people used to drive down the street at speeds of 40mph+. I saw/heard a large number of accidents, especially at the Denmark Hill end, caused by drivers tearing down towards the junction and going too fast for the bend.

> When did Champion Hill become one of the most

> residential street in South Southwark

It has Ruskin Court (15 flats) Ruskin Park House (241 flats), the Champion Hill estate (don't know how many flats but can't be fewer than 150), the Langford Green estate (45 houses and flats), the Kings College halls of residence (700 students). Assuming (surely an underestimate) an occupancy of two per house/flat, plus the students, that makes around 1800 people dwelling on that road. Just how residential do you want?

[rupert james]

With regard to the bollards can you please tell when they were erected?

[rendelharris]

rupert james Wrote:

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> With regard to the bollards can you please tell

> when they were erected?

No idea except it was at some time between 2006 and 2016 when I lived there - more towards the 2006 end. I remember having to work in the library for a week because of the noise building the new junction with Denmark Hill. Peter W may remember better.

ETA I've just found a fabulous tool in Google Streetview that allows one to go back and see all available dates, so I can tell you they weren't there in 2008 but they were there in 2014, so I'd guess somewhere around 2010.

[James Barber]

Champion Hill has 922 adults on the electoral roll in 453 homes.

So with children and people not on the electoral roll likely to be 1,200 people.

This makes interesting read - https://www.southwark.gov.uk/health-and-wellbeing/public-health/health-and-wellbeing-in-southwark-jsna/southwark-profile

Hi ITATM,

The northern pavement E-W section starts wide at DKH and then rapidly diminishes all the way to the very eastern end. Vast majority is narrow both sides.

[rendelharris]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Champion Hill has 922 adults on the electoral roll

> in 453 homes.

> So with children and people not on the electoral

> roll likely to be 1,200 people.

Not that it matters - either way it's clearly massively residential! - but I reckon that's probably an underestimate, with 700 students in the halls; in my experience most students remain on the electoral roll in their family area. Do you know (just out of curiosity) how many on the electoral roll are from the halls?

[Charles Notice]

How many people/houses are there on Grove Hill Road, Bromar Road, Pytchley Road, Quorn Road, Malfort Road, Ivanhoe Road together with all the flats on to the the DKH estate that now have the pleasure of the road closure?

Now that would be interesting.

[rendelharris]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> How many people/houses are there on Grove Hill

> Road, Bromar Road, Pytchley Road, Quorn Road,

> Malfort Road, Ivanhoe Road together with all the

> flats on to the the DKH estate that now have the

> pleasure of the road closure?

Why would there be any increase in traffic on Bromar or Grove Hill Roads? The only place they can get you is onto Champion Hill going east, which is now redundant. The closure should, in fact, lower traffic levels on these roads as they can no longer be used as a ratrun through to Denmark Hill, and indeed the couple of times a week I ride up there on a weekday morning peak it has. Furthermore, living very close to Ivanhoe/Pytchley/Quorn I have noticed no increase in traffic whatsoever, and I walk/cycle them most days. Funny, there have been a lot of complaints on this thread from people complaining that they'll have to take longer/slower journeys now their little ratrun has been closed, and purporting concern for residents in these roads, but I don't recall a single person from any of these roads complaining that they've experienced any rise in traffic level. Why would that be, I wonder?

As it happens, I was walking to hospital recently and was so struck by the lack of traffic on Grove Hill Road (where previously the queues in the AM rush hour from the lights stretched well back over the zebra and beyond due to ratrunners heading for Champion Hill) that I took a snap of it. This was taken at 8.29 AM on Tuesday February 12th. Not exactly Carmageddon, is it? Rather nice for Grove Hill residents, I should think, and the primary school.

[Charles Notice]

The question asked was how residential were the above roads?

If you feel Champion Hill was heavily residential and quote all your numbers why can the numbers not be known for the above to draw some kind of comparison.

It could be people may not be on the EDF so do not put their views forward.

As Champion Hill is closed that could be why there is no traffic as to get down to Denmark Hill you have to use the above roads.

Was it not half term around the date of your picture?

Out of interest what was the traffic like at the DKH/Grove Lane junction down to Denmark Hill?

[rendelharris]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> The question asked was how residential were the

> above roads?

>

> If you feel Champion Hill was heavily residential

> and quote all your numbers why can the numbers not

> be known for the above to draw some kind of

> comparison.

>

> It could be people may not be on the EDF so do not

> put their views forward.

>

> As Champion Hill is closed that could be why there

> is no traffic as to get down to Denmark Hill you

> have to use the above roads.

>

> Was it not half term around the date of your

> picture?

>

> Out of interest what was the traffic like at the

> DKH/Grove Lane junction down to Denmark Hill?

I didn't walk down there, I walked down Camberwell Grove. You did say that people on Grove Hill Road would "have the pleasure of the road closure", i.e. implying they would be suffering increased traffic - they're not.

No, it wasn't half term, that was 18th-22nd February this year.

If you want to know how many people are on these roads I'm sure you can work it out for yourself - but if they're not suffering increased traffic numbers are irrelevant anyway, aren't they?

[Angelina]

So people don't like the traffic on their roads now it's diverted.

CH may be a wider road but it is also a residential area but had turned into a main road I fully welcome the view of stopping traffic through more roads, as Peter atated.

[spider69]

Where do you live?

Just the road

[Camberwellse5]

This is a load of poppycock. Champion Hill was closedto stop the predominant traffic flow of Peckham to Brixton. Those commuters will not go via East Dulwich as that adds 10 minutes to their journey time at least. They?re using the bus route. The increased flows in East Dulwich are no doubt due to the new Charter and children being dropped off

[goldilocks]

You have thought that, but it?s strange how the tailbacks coincided exactly with the closure of the champion hill / grove junction isn?t it? charter East Dulwich opened after Christmas so the timing doesn?t line up!

Camberwellse5 Wrote:

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> This is a load of poppycock. Champion Hill was

> closedto stop the predominant traffic flow of

> Peckham to Brixton. Those commuters will not go

> via East Dulwich as that adds 10 minutes to their

> journey time at least. They?re using the bus

> route. The increased flows in East Dulwich are no

> doubt due to the new Charter and children being

> dropped off

[rendelharris]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> How many people/houses are there on Grove Hill

> Road, Bromar Road, Pytchley Road, Quorn Road,

> Malfort Road, Ivanhoe Road together with all the

> flats on to the the DKH estate that now have the

> pleasure of the road closure?

Well, Charles, I had to walk to hospital again this morning, so I took some pictures for you. Clockwise from top left: Bromar Road, Quorn Road, Ivanhoe Road, Grove Lane, Dog Kennel Hill and Pytchley Road. All pictures taken between 8.05 and 8.20 this morning. So you can put your kind concerns for residents of these roads to rest, it would seem.

There was a traffic jam along the bottom part of Champion Park, stretching back almost as far as the wolf sculpture; in the twenty-plus years I've lived round here there has always been a traffic jam of that length or longer at rush hour, it's a very busy road with a pelican that turns red every ninety seconds or less and there is a very long red/short green phasing at the lights at the Denmark Hill junction. From the wolf sculpture, cars were taking approximately two minutes to reach Denmark Hill. Of the alleged nightmarish gridlock of which we've heard so much, not a sign.

[bels123]

Please can someone confirm when the trial started? I live on one of the mentioned roads and can?t say I?ve noticed any increase. ED Grove however has been bad, I?ve taken a few videos of the congestion wrhen it?s been particularly slow as we?re walking to school - I?ll check dates once someone confirm trial start date.

[Galileo]

Grove Vale has also been backed up a lot recently. I haven?t noticed an increase in traffic on my road, which is where the drop offs for Charter East Dulwich would be, but so far I have seen relatively few drop offs, much to the credit of the school and it?s pupils and parents.

[sdrs]

Champion Hill access to Denmark Hill has been blocked off since Monday 4th Feb as the no entry barrier was installed at the intersection of Champion Hill with itself a week ahead of the official start date (which was given as 11th Feb).

[bels123]

I took videos on our way to school on ED Grove on 22nd Jan as was particularly bad then - backed up all the way to Melbourne Grove. I remember thinking it had been for a week or so - put it down to the cold weather as there were no road works this side of Dulwich Village.

We?ve taken to walking on the north pavement now, as the traffic going towards Dulwich Village is so gridlocked.

[goldilocks]

I think as noted above by bels123, the traffic on East Dulwich Grove has been terrible for months, my point was that since the start of the trial closure, the tailbacks were longer than ever - they never used to go past Melbourne Grove, but on occasions during the trial they have been backed up past Matham Grove. This week however, it appears to have gone back to a more normal (congested) level so far. I have no idea why this would be the case, but its welcome!

[bels123]

Yes I noticed it was much better this morning!

[Siduhe]

Interestingly the traffic has also been much better on the South Circular where the water main works are in the last two days - a very noticeable drop off in traffic. I wonder if people are using alternative routes to pass through Southwark given the impact of those works (which might in turn affect traffic flows a bit further north at the other end of the Lane)

[goldilocks]

Wherever the traffic has been for the past couple of days, it?s back today with a vengeance. Could see queueing towards the crossroads by alleyns all the way back last Matham Grove and beyond!

[wulfhound]

Grove Lane was shut due to a serious RTC, much traffic will have diverted via EDG.

[goldilocks]

Explains it as it was dreadful this am.

Will be interesting to see what tomorrow brings - its strange that there has been so much variation - totally ridiculous tail backs for about 2 weeks followed by 2 days of calm, then 2 days of extreme tailbacks that may have been due to accidents on Grove Lane.