Goverment childcare vouchers and nurseries...help!!

[Katiesa]

Hi,

I am struggling to get my head around how it works when your little one turns three with the government vouchers - the 15 hours of nursery time you are meant to get and how that works at all the various nurseries in Dulwich. I am feeling very confused and I am sure it really isn't that confusing. I assumed that if I wanted to put my little one when he is three in a nursery for three half days that if that totalled 15 hours it would be covered by the government and I wouldn't have to pay anything. However, one nursery I saw today said you do pay an amount on top of the free time because they are open all year. At another place I assumed that the three half day sessions of 5 hours each would be covered and I am sure they are open to all year......how does it all work??? I am interested in the Bright norizons nursery (which mentions the free sessions as being 8-11 or 3-6) and my favourite nursery.

Thank you in advance

[Fuschia]

It's 15h over 38 weeks. Though nurseries are encouraged to allow you to stretch the entitlement all year round. The 15h must be taken across a minimum of 3 days

[DishandtheSpoon]

Hello Katiesa

So, from what I know there are two things going on with the 15 hours.

1) You take a place at a local school that has a pre school provision, they offer you mornings or afternoon sessions to equal 15 hours per week.

2) If your child is at a private nursery then if they are there full time, they get 15 hours knocked off the bill. However, if they are there less than that, as in my childs case, they get a pro rata'd amount of free hours. It isnt actually a simple calculation for the nurseries at all, because my nursery showed me how they work it out and it seemed to be based on whether that child is full time or not, and every day less than full time means that they have to charge it out differently. Sorry to not be able to explain better, but Im sure your nursery can.

3) I think from what you say above, you can put your child down for a private nursery just to get the 15 hours same as option 1, but I think what I understand is that you couldnt just say, right they'll do all day on a monday, and half day on a tuesday, which is pretty much 15 hours, you have to go along with what they suggest so the sessions as described above.

I am also with a branch of Bright Horizons, although not locally, and have loved it.

Hope that helps.

[amydown]

And some private nurseries opt out and don't provide the fee hours at all I have been told...

[Katiesa]

Thankyou so much. I think i actually understand it now. I guess when I get to the point of signing up for a nursery i'll be able to say I only want three half days and ask if that will be covered.I'm not aware of any of the schools near me having preschools/nursery although that would be great

[minder]

It's up to the nursery and/or childminder whether they accept the 15 hours of nursery time - as usual the guidelines are difficult to understand and some nurseries/childminders lose out or have to fill out a lot more paperwork.

[Spooner]

Hi Katiesa

I was very keen on the Bright Horizons nursery but found the policy of only full days doesn't really suit us. Different nurseries work differently with the most flexible having a minimum of 3 hours a day vs some that require full time attendance. Bright Horizons charges for full days whether your child attends all day or not. When you get the vouchers I believe that they allow a maximum of 6 hours per day out of your free allowance of 15 hours. That means that your child would need to attend 3 days a week and pay something on top of your free allowance as they'd only get 6 hours free per day and that only applies for 38 weeks of the year. They have a sheet which says how much you would pay per month when your child qualifies for 15 hours free a week.

As you have to commit to a nursery year round I imagine you would end up always paying for the school holidays unless your chosen nursery only runs in for 38 weeks per year (eg school nursery).

[Fuschia]

They're not actually allowed to require you to take additional, paid, hours

[Katiesa]

Wow, ok so I am confused agsain....I'm going to Bright Horizons later today so will ask but I do want half days not a full day and don't want to be putting him in for a day but having to pay for most of it when the government vouchers do not cover it sll.I am sure that My favourite place nursery do do half days and so I could get that covered by the vouchers. I'm not sure if they break for the hoilidays there but I don't mind having him home for holidays

[Fuschia]

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/992026/Nursery-education-grant-code-gives-parents-new-rights/

[alieh]

The mind boggles at how this could be so inconsistent and confusing. We are struggling to understand the same and having to have a very akward conversation with the nursery my son attends (which we absolutely love!) as the subsidy is not calculated the way we expected (and the way the policy lays out) which means - unless it changes - we can't afford to send him.

[DishandtheSpoon]

One school that does have a pre school section is Ivydale in Nunhead. I 'think' although I have only been there once, that Goodrich also do. I would be surprised if there are not others too. If you can get hold of the Southwark schools application booklet they have a list of every school in the Borough, and they say whether each has a pre school provision.

[Pickle]

There is a nursery at Goodrich, and other local schools that offer nursery are Heber, Goose Green, Ivydale... I'm sure there are others. It works well for us getting the free school nursery place (5 mornings a week in our case), and seems a lot simpler than trying to use the subsidy privately. I guess a lot of private nurseries would rather have full time children as the demand is there - seems a shame!

[Spooner]

I wish I had known that they can't make you pay for more hours when I visited Bright Horizons this week as that is not what they told me at all. Katiesa it would be great to hear how you get on.

Thanks for that article too Fuschia. I wonder when the following bit will come into effect this year as that will change things for the good:

The Code also confirms that from 2012, parents will also have the right to spread the free entitlement over a whole year. The Government said this would help parents balance childcare with employment or training and enable them to budget.

[Katiesa]

ok so I have just been to Bright Horizons and thought I understood it until I read all these posts again. They said the minimum amount I could do is one day - where of that one day 6 hours is paid for leaving four hours to pay for. So to put him in for one day a week it would cost ?133.40 a month. I don't think you can pay any less as one day is the minimum. I didn't ask but I assume that means you couldn't just put them in for the morning free session of 8-11 or the afternoon one of 3-6pm.

[Fuschia]

That's in breach of the code of practice

[Spooner]

So you got the same explanation as I did. I did ask if you could put them in for the morning or afternoon free session that they mention as being 8-11 or 3-6. I was told that you have to pay for the whole day still so if you just used 3 of your free hours one day you'd be paying for the rest of the day on top of that. Their approach did surprise me as it works out very expensive and seems to be only really suitable for parents who actually want their children there all day long. I was kind of hoping that I'd been given the wrong information as I've ruled it out on this basis and this basis alone as it was great apart from this!

[Fuschia]

Speak to the lea bait it

[BellendenBear]

I'm still confused. My daughter will be eligible for the 15 hours from April. She already attends a Southwark EYC nursery 3 days per week. They clearly state that the free hours are pro rata, as DishandtheSpoon said above, so we only get 9 of the hours deducted from our bill. The code of practice link that Fuschia posted seems to say that they have to be more flexible and allow people 5 hours x 3 days etc. Is this just that they should offer this or do they have to?

[Fuschia]

I don't know if they are obliged to offer you 5 sessions x 3

But offering you 3 x 3 totally free is better than most!

A flexible offer is encouraged but not required

If they could offer you 5 sessions over 3 days that is allowed

[Fuschia]

Obliged to offer 15h unless there is a good reason

http://www.southwarkheads.org.uk/hc/sfm/SF%20Item%205%20EYSFF%20version%205.doc

Have a word with your councillor maybe

[BellendenBear]

Thanks Fuschia. I have emailed the author of that report.

[kristymac1]

when the nurseries say they offer the 15 hours pro-rata, could they mean that they spread the 15 x38 weeks over 52 weeks (most private nurseries operate out of school term). When my daughter was at nursery, the weekly fee was not reduced by the equivalent of 15hrs, simply because the 15 hours over 38 weeks was spread out over 50 weeks - does that make sense? Otherwise we'd have been paying a different weekly fee for term-time vs out of term time which would have been a pain.

[Fuschia]

They should call that 'stretched' though it does work as you describe in such cases

[BellendenBear]

No, they mean 3/5 of the 15 hours. I think they also stretch this out over 52 weeks instead of 38 like you describe.

kristymac1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> when the nurseries say they offer the 15 hours

> pro-rata, could they mean that they spread the 15

> x38 weeks over 52 weeks (most private nurseries

> operate out of school term). When my daughter was

> at nursery, the weekly fee was not reduced by the

> equivalent of 15hrs, simply because the 15 hours

> over 38 weeks was spread out over 50 weeks - does

> that make sense? Otherwise we'd have been paying a

> different weekly fee for term-time vs out of term

> time which would have been a pain.