Gina Ford's new book - new mums & sex

[Belle]

This is quite an amusing response to GF's new book, which someone posted on babycentre.

I'm not meaning to start a Gina debate here - I actually have found some elements of GF useful, first time round at least, and I'm not at the earth mother end of the spectrum the blogger possibly is, but am loving the response to the GF attitude re new mums and sex. find the 'get back into it 4-6 weeks after' a bewildering new addition to her repertoire!

http://babycalm.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/an-open-letter-to-gina-ford-28-2/

[amyw]

That made me laugh. And I like GF!

[bluesuperted]

Belle - eeek, I nearly cut and pasted the Daily Fail article yesterday but I decided against it for fear of mass arguments in the EDF Family Room so close to convivial drinks ;)

Not going to start a GF debate either (but, disclaimer, grr). But the snippets and gist of the DM suggest hideous comments abound in that book! And wonderful reponse from this blog, which I really like anyway. I particularly resonated with the comment (about enforced date nights and bans on talking about babies) 'we may as well be told to cut off a limb ? such is the bereft feeling of emptiness when away from them.'

For an even more amusing response, check out: http://motherventing.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/sex/

[Curmudgeon]

Has anyone found out what a "maternity nurse" is yet?

[Ruth_Baldock]

BST; I LOVE Motherventing, loved that response too.

I can tell you what I was doing 4-6weeks post partum, and it didn't involve gettin' jiggy wit' it/conjugal relations/The Sexy Time. It did involve weeping and feeling yeuuch.

Well done, GF. Or as Mumsnet call her, She Who Must Not Be Named

[Strawbs]

All I can say on it is that she has clearly never squeezed anything out of her vagina! 4-6 weeks after I was still in pain from stitches and no bleeding free at that point. Only now 4.5 months later (literally in the last week) am I getting more than 3 hours sleep a night so hell to the no was it even considered in my house by either of us!!

[Fuschia]

It has certainly generated publicity for her new book, which I guess was the intent

Hope it doesn't make new mOthers feel even more inadequate ... Not only should your baby be napping to schedule but you should be using the free time to slip into your satin negligee ...

[madmum]

Read this last night in bed with my OH and I was peeing my self ( happens alot 2 kids en all) the responses were brilliant....

Evven my OH said this woman must be a nut job...he is now researching the sanity of ragina cortina and will report back his findings!

Does she recomend sexy time lighting, curtains half open or full balck out should we adopt the controlled crying technique in fore play???

I have struggled to understand and appreciate my new identity as a mother and if through thoses dark days I had picked up this book then I think it may have sent me over the edge.

It will [robably transpire that GF is actually a MAN!

HAve a great day ladies xxx

[KatsuQueen]

Sex after 4-6 weeks, hahahahahaha..(bitter laughter on a loop)

[Fuschia]

Well she is divorced so her advice on relationships can't be that good ...

[Saffron]

madmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does she recomend sexy time lighting, curtains

> half open or full balck out should we adopt the

> controlled crying technique in fore play???

>

Hmm now I think this could actually be turned to our advantage. The next time Hubbies are really up for, as Ruth so eloquently says, gettin' jiggy wit'it, but we've just had a day of Baby crying / Toddler tantruming / never-ending-laundry / sobbing in our lattes after just 3 hours sleep / premenstrual migraine... let's tell our hubbies (a la GF) that they can go 'self soothe' in dark room by themselves. ;-)

[Inkmaiden]

Saffron, that just made me snort coffee all over my computer.

[hellosailor]

:))

[sillywoman]

Ahh, Gina - a woman who's never had stitches ;)

[Belle]

he hee...

I think basically the advice with sex should be 'when you're ready', whether that's a few days (I know, but I do know people who have!) or a few months or longer, it's SO personal. I have always hated when people act superior on e.g. babycentre for getting back into it within a matter of days, everyone is different. I get the idea about advising couples to ensure they still have time for themselves if they can or whatever it takes to keep investing in the relationship, but think setting time limits and being so didactic is bound to put some mothers (and fathers?!) under pressure.

[Belle]

AND totally agree this is a cynical marketing ploy but I would imagine this would have been sanctioned by the author?

[Smiler]

:))saffron.

I really, really do not want to know what gina has to say about sex, yeuch.

Another way to avoid the deed following stitches would surely be to refer to gina during foreplay.

[chantelle]

people give her such a hard time but her advice works for a lot of people. And that's all it is - advice. No one has to follow it. I think the idea of resuming intimacy with your partner (within a month or two) is not crazy and shouldn't be scoffed at.

[Belle]

No, as I said I didn't mean to start a pro/anti Gina debate - I found elements of her book useful and incorporated them first time round, and I do agree she is maligned unfairly in some cases (if you read her book you see that she doesn't do the whole crying out thing she's often associated with, and in fact strongly says do not leave e.g an overtired child crying/ do not leave a toddler with fear of the dark in a dark room etc. )

Of course it is advice and to be taken or left, and as I said above, a month or two may not be crazy for some - I think what people are annoyed by is the fact that she seems to be setting a benchmark, another thing for mums to measure themselves against. And phrases like 'just grin and bear it' - albeit not her own, but she chose to include in her book - I just don't find helpful. Books are powerful, and whilst we can say 'just ignore them', for some people when an idea is planted in their heads, it can really take hold. I know I beat myself up for so many things first time round, often things I'd gleaned from parenting books. I was much more circumspect second time around.

On another gina topic... I did find her potty training book helpful a bit at the start, good checklist for how to know your child is ready etc. but recently found one piece that made me laugh out loud. Basically said if your child is playing with their bits (which surely we can all agree is very normal) you should tell them to do it in private, say their room. I think that's a bit much for a 3 year old! She actually says if it hapens when out and about, tell them firmly to do it in the bathroom and adopt a special 'look' that they will understand.

[reren]

Although pretty strongly the opposite end of the spectrum from gina in terms of controlled crying etc - I have always disliked the dismissal of gina as being unable to offer advice because she isnt a parent herself - it feels a bit clubby to me - you arent part of our mums club therefore we dont have to listen to you. But i do think its pretty rich to be advising people about having sex when you have no experience of those first months after birth. As the blogger alludes to - the assumption that your husband is gagging for it and your frigidly withholding is such a cliche and so outside my persHonal experience and that of my friends. I think it is very interesting to read about how gina ford came to her views and it is hugely influenced by a mother who was left by her father early on. As far as i can see - Gina's view is that if more people spent time on their relationship - the child would benefit by having parents who remain together. This feels like simple good sense to me - and there is a lot to be said for fighting the urge to make your baby the only focus of your life. But i think she completely underestimates / misunderstands the sort of men who are fathers today. They are up in the night wih us, they are slightly traumatised by witnessing a birth and they are completely overwhelmed with love for their baby too. Seems to me this is an unhelpful addition to the vogue for polarising the experiences of men and women.

[Otta]

Babies and sore vaginas aside, why would anyone want a book to give them a sex time table?

[Saffron]

Hahaha! Sorry, Hubbie, you'll have to turn off the football now. GF says it's sexy time.

[hellosailor]

reren Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Although pretty strongly the opposite end of the

> spectrum from gina in terms of controlled crying

> etc - I have always disliked the dismissal of gina

> as being unable to offer advice because she isnt a

> parent herself - it feels a bit clubby to me - you

> arent part of our mums club therefore we dont have

> to listen to you. But i do think its pretty rich

> to be advising people about having sex when you

> have no experience of those first months after

> birth. As the blogger alludes to - the assumption

> that your husband is gagging for it and your

> frigidly withholding is such a cliche and so

> outside my persHonal experience and that of my

> friends. I think it is very interesting to read

> about how gina ford came to her views and it is

> hugely influenced by a mother who was left by her

> father early on. As far as i can see - Gina's

> view is that if more people spent time on their

> relationship - the child would benefit by having

> parents who remain together. This feels like

> simple good sense to me - and there is a lot to be

> said for fighting the urge to make your baby the

> only focus of your life. But i think she

> completely underestimates / misunderstands the

> sort of men who are fathers today. They are up in

> the night wih us, they are slightly traumatised by

> witnessing a birth and they are completely

> overwhelmed with love for their baby too. Seems to

> me this is an unhelpful addition to the vogue for

> polarising the experiences of men and women.

totally agree, the idea that your partner is gagging for it and you better put out to keep him satisfied is such a cliche, sex was the last thing on my partner's mind after the birth of mini sailor, he could barely keep his eyes open during dinner or find the energy to brush his teeth! And Reren you're right, I do it's perhaps a bit unfair when people dismiss all GF's parenting advice on the grounds she hasn't had children (though I do think she may find some of her advice would have changed if she had had them) but I do draw the line being advised about post baby sex from a woman who hasn't ever had episiotomy stitches that become infected, horrific piles, bits prolapsing all over the place, maternity pad in place for weeks, milk dribbling from boobs at the choicest moments, engorged boobs, incontinence if you even laugh let alone anything else, I think it would do her well to keep it zipped on this front...

[Otta]

I have always disliked the dismissal of gina as being unable to offer advice because she isnt a parent herself - it feels a bit clubby to me - you arent part of our mums club therefore we dont have to listen to you.

I certainly wouldn't dismiss a person's advise on many areas of child care, because they were not a parent themselves.

However, when it comes to talking about dealing with a newborn, I do think it's fair to question her. She may well have looked after a million babies, and know what she is doing, but she has never fed them with her breast, or felt that incredible love for them, that on'y a parent can feel.

If it'd not your child, I imagine it's quite easy to distance yourself, and get them in to a rigid routine. Add the emotional bond, and it's a different ball game, which she will never truly be able to understand without having been a parent.

[Otta]

However, when it comes to talking about dealing with a newborn, I do think it's fair to question her. She may well have looked after a million babies, and know what she is doing, but she has never fed them with her breast, or felt that incredible love for them, that on'y a parent can feel.

Before anyone comes at me with an axe, the above was just an example, I am not saying that if you don't breast feed your child, you are somehow less attached.