Voting turnout

[Huguenot]

Gosh crikey - the tired justifications of the apathetic.

It's banal to claim that because the rejigging of the NHS wasn't in a manifesto people couldn't vote on it. You'd have to be pretty bloody thick to think you weren't voting for a representative that has a philosophy, an approach, to these scenarios.

Likewise it's cockhoist to claim that local politics is just as worthy an involvement in politics as a national vote. Council taxes and neighborhood self help groups pale to wishy washy magnolia compared with the primary colours of income tax and VAT.

Whether you believe it or not (clearly NOT in your case) every decision you make at a local level is in fact defined by the distribution of funds at a national level. You can whimsy at your neighborhood meeting, but do nothing unless budget is applied.

As DJKQ will be at pains to point out, debating with Southwark or James Barber about local social housing is pissing in the wind when the purse strings are held at a national level.

So ner ner ner to your 'local tree hugging is just as important as voting' bollocks.

As for this nonsense about having a right to complain even if you don't vote - I've never heard such rubbish.

It's like complaining about the car crashing because instead of stamping on the brake you were crapping on about your rights not to press the brake pedal. Senseless.

It's like righteous teenage angst. Wah wah wah.

If you don't vote, politicians don't give a fuck about your opinion - that's the game.

They would undoubtedly prefer you didn't vote, because then they can do whatever they want.

So yes, bleat about your right to be apathetic, but don't complain about the car crashing because you were wheedling some tiresome childish toss instead of putting your foot down.

[woodrot]

This ^^^^^ is either the worst troll eva or the ramblings of someone living in a corporate state, who has had too much Tiger beer in the company of ruddy faced 50+ expats and their miniskirted teenage girlfriends.

[????]

:))

[Huguenot]

Like one of those politicians you so gravely despise, woodrot, instead of addressing the point you embark on a dull and predictably clich?d attack on the person making it.

How very.... tabloid.

For all your self esteem, does it disappoint you that (like an old and unimaginative hack) the only abuse you could summon was based on such a tired and inappropriate stereotype?

;-)

Is your own support for apathy fuelled by a pressing fear that you'd prefer to spend a lifetime on the sidelines yelling abuse, lest actually trying to do something may expose crushing inadequacies...? I sorely hope not!

Hee hee.

[Annette Curtain]

I/we voted

I encouraged all my neighbours to vote

I badgered many other too

Boris got in

*meh*

Netts:X

[Marmora Man]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I/we voted

>

> I encouraged all my neighbours to vote

>

> I badgered many other too

>

> Boris got in

>

>

>

> *meh*

>

> Netts:X

I did exactly the same and Boris got it. Great!

[Annette Curtain]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Annette Curtain Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I/we voted

> >

> > I encouraged all my neighbours to vote

> >

> > I badgered many other too

> >

> > Boris got in

> >

> >

> >

> > *meh*

> >

> > Netts:X

>

> I did exactly the same and Boris got it. Great!

We stopped your *ahem* 'LANDSLIDE'

Great!

:-$

[woodrot]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Like one of those politicians you so gravely

> despise, woodrot, instead of addressing the point

> you embark on a dull and predictably clich?d

> attack on the person making it.

>

> How very.... tabloid.

>

> For all your self esteem, does it disappoint you

> that (like an old and unimaginative hack) the only

> abuse you could summon was based on such a tired

> and inappropriate stereotype?

>

> ;-)

>

> Is your own support for apathy fuelled by a

> pressing fear that you'd prefer to spend a

> lifetime on the sidelines yelling abuse, lest

> actually trying to do something may expose

> crushing inadequacies...? I sorely hope not!

>

> Hee hee.

Another Tiger sir ?

[Chippy Minton]

We stopped your *ahem* 'LANDSLIDE'

Boris edged it, but hopefully he'll be held to account by a reinvigorated GLA.

[Huguenot]

The voting patterns demonstrate that for most Londoners this was considered an 'either/or' between Boris and Ken.

If only 31,270 marginal decision makers had plumped for Ken instead of Boris then Ken would be in.

That's a pretty small number. If you were wobbling before you made your choice it's likely you were one of them.

Marmora Man commented on the fact that Boris is a pretty uncommitted Tory, big on a lot of traditionally 'left' issues.

There's one obvious reason for this - he was courting those 31,270 people who were floating.

It essentially means that if you are a floating voter who made decisions based on policy then YOU MADE THAT POLICY.

Those people who think their vote doesn't make a difference then it's because you have made it that way. If you make your decision intelligently based on policy rather than tribal affiliation you are more influential on the attitudes and approaches of government than you imagine.

The idea that 'you don't make a difference' is ridiculous.

[V511]

Huguenot -

Gosh crikey - the tired ramblings of someone didn't read my posts.

I didn't say I was apathetic. I voted and always do.

I didn't mention anything about formal local politics. I made no statements about its effectiveness. Both deliberately so. So 'ner ner ner' to you you silly little man child. Engage in a debate like a adult.

Its arrogant to presume that everyone who votes as significantly versed in the history and values of a candidate and their party and that therefore they shouldn't be surprised what happens. Imagine an 18year old first time voter who wasn't that interested in politics, didn't know much about it but thought he would vote.

Why assume everyone has a certain level of political knowledge, history and understanding?

Simon

[Huguenot]

Simon you are clearly taking yourself so seriously that you struggle to recognise someone having a bit of fun at your expense through the haze of your own pompous self regard.

Silly little man child indeeed.

People who vote without thought or consideration for the policies and philosophies of their candidates by definition have no impact on policy. Politicians cannnot cater for their tastes if they demonstrate none.

In other words, whether your vote counts or not is an entirely personal decision.

There is an elegant irony in the fact that we address people who 'flip flop' on issues or are influenced by public opinion as 'weak'. They are in fact the most democratic of politicians.

[StraferJack]

Seems to me Simon has made some very good points, in an articulate way and just because Huguenot has disagreed with him, he has torn into Simon as if he were some random internet troll

It's all very well saying "fun at his expense" but it was well OTT and is the sort of thing that discourages people from joining in debate. Sometimes people are genuinely worth ripping into after protracted or stupid comments, but Simon isn't one of them by the looks of things

On balance, I tend to come down on the same side as Huguenot re "should voting be mandatory" but that doesn't mean I can't hear the opposite viewpoint, especially when it's being well put

[*Bob*]

We should be marching every munter over the age of 18 to the ballot box at forcing them to put a cross in at least one box - or soil their ballot.

Or we could stick the faces of top politicians on a big wheel pinned to the clock face of Big Ben - and spin it until it stops, accompanied by cheering and a barrel organ.

It's what the Suffragettes and our Glorious Dead would have wanted.

[V511]

Huguenot -

Its not about my supposed pomposity, but the fact I don't know you, have had no engagement with you before on this forum and the first opportunity you get, you attack me and not my argument, in a childish disrespectful way.

I love banter and teasing but I think a rapport has to be built up between people before its used. You dove straight in.

I didn't criticise anyone else personally, just offered a critique of their arguments, as I expect people will of mine, and that's what I want, so that knowledge and understanding can develop.

Please leave me out of your personal insults.

Simon.

[Huguenot]

Actually Simon mate, I think you'll find that you started the personal insults - I just described your argument as toss.

Go on mate, read back and you'll see that although I was grandstanding, bellicose and dismissive of your argument, I didn't actually insult you.

It was you that created the phrase 'silly little man child'.

It was you that started the personal attacks, and I just chucked 'em back at you. Don't like it much when you're on the recieving end? Man with a short memory? Ho ho.

Now you're just galumphing around with bloated self-righteousness. Get over yourself.

*sighs*

[El Pibe]

Simon.

Huguenot is a two speed model. Off and Full On.

It's actually quite entertaioning once you get the hang of things.

Maybe we need an EDF instruction manual.

[Huguenot]

I'm just having a bit of fun - the EDF isn't a therapists convention, we've got to keep 25,000 viewers happy every day!

;-)

[*Bob*]

Don't take it to heart, mate. I mean - Simon.

You're just getting the fallout from Woodrot's cracking contribution for the day.

[V511]

Huguenot

I disagree. Saying that 'You'd have to be pretty bloody thick', that I can 'whimsy' at a neighbourhood meeting, that I can 'bleat about your right to be apathetic' and that I am 'wheedling some tiresome childish toss' suggests a general tone of personal insult rather than a simple critique of my argument.

You disagree and fair enough. As you say, you're having fun and using grandstanding, bellicose language.

You didn't have to though. You could have engaged in a different way. But that's your choice.

Our different approaches don't seem very compatible so we might as well leave it there.

Best wishes to you.

Simon.

[Huguenot]

No Simon, as you've so masterfully observed it wasn't a simple critique of your argument. It was a bit of fun.

Unlike yourself and SJ, I don't believe that debate needs to be dull, worthy and monotonous. It's probably just as well. The EDF would be guilty of genocide by boredom.

It seems however, that you've have deliberately looked for offence by interpreting the perfectly normal use of 'you' in the sense of 'one' in a more personal manner.

I don't think that's reasonable, nor do I find the 'wounded bunny rabbit' air you are taking on as befitting for a grown adult.

Having said that, many thanks for giving me permission to make my own choices, I am grateful that someone of your intellectual elevation would stoop to granting such freedoms to such unworthy acolytes. ;-)

So pompous it's laughable.

Best wishes to you.

[maxxi]

BWTY*

*Mobile phone acronym meaning "Best Wishes To You", usually employed as a way of expressing one's assumed superiority over an adversary (real and/or imagined) by illustrating the refusal to end any disputative communication with "Up Yours", "You Can Stick That In Your Pipe And Smoke It"(archaic), or "You T#sser!" thus (theoretically) demonstrating a higher level of civility and a preparedness to laugh at life's brickbats.

[Huguenot]

I was just returning his compliment ;-)

[Marmora Man]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Marmora Man Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Annette Curtain Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I/we voted

> > >

> > > I encouraged all my neighbours to vote

> > >

> > > I badgered many other too

> > >

> > > Boris got in

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > *meh*

> > >

> > > Netts:X

> >

> > I did exactly the same and Boris got it. Great!

>

>

>

> We stopped your *ahem* 'LANDSLIDE'

>

> Great!

>

> :-$

I thought I stopped your votes for Ken having any impact!

[V511]

Maxxi & Huguenot

I didn't know the phrase 'Best wishes to you' had other connotations.

I genuinely meant it.

Simon.