Revised new - M&S planning application to replace Iceland..

[DaveR]

If I lived close by, I'm sure I'd be strongly opposed on the basis that there will be a noticeable negative effect compared to the current situation. But I'm not sure that what is being proposed is inherently unsuitable/unreasonable for the location. The point about parking stress is kind of double-edged - more available parking puts more cars on the road, which is not something that IMHO should be encouraged.

"I think a line in the sand has to be drawn somewhere"

Is that line being drawn around your house? I genuinely don't see any grand issue of principle here - it's a pretty fine judgment call either way.

[Earl Aelfheah]

There is no automatic right to park a car outside your house. Occasionally, I have to park a couple of streets away (which is a bit inconvenient), but I have no more right to any particular space than anyone else. Building more parking spaces, just encourages more people to drive to the shops.

[LondonMix]

I tend to agree. Also, if you look at earlier posts in this thread, most people were unaware the parking spaces behing Iceland existed. Various people checked it out at various times of the day and it was totally under-utilised. Therefore, losing those 17 spaces can't be so significant regarding parking stress.

There are other elements of the application that are of greater concern-- specifically how the trucks will access the back of the development safely without causing property damage. I am not sure what the final conclusion on that point was in the appeal.

[Peckhamrye]

I live in a block of 50 flats with underground car parking - at any one time there are rarely more than 15 cars there. Many people living in London these days don't drive particularly young professionals without children living in flats of which there are many.

[LondonMix]

Agree with that too. No one I know had a car before they started thinking of starting a family except 1 friend in London. A car is a huge expense for a young professional in London that's totally unncessary before kids.

[first mate]

Dave R, I was waiting for the inevitable snipe about nimbyism. The line in the sand was in reference to the inference that because there has been a store long-term therefore any size store, with any associated changes/problems, is to be anticipated and accepted.

I'm not persuaded by the argument that residents and employes will not use cars, but I am happy to be proved wrong- as I said though, once the decision is made there is no going back.

rahrahrah, there has been no suggestion by anyone objecting to the application of an automatic right to a parking space infront of one's house.

tomk, there is another 'desirable' retailer apparently ready to take on the site as is without increasing the footprint of the building, so your point about empty offices does not hold.

LondonMix, absolutely agree, access and servicing details are of great concern. A visit to the site will show that a huge bollard erected to protect other properties is damaged and bent. There is a history of damage by articulated delivery lorries to property in the street because there is so little room to manouevre. If I recall planning commented last that they could not be sure what had caused that damage and so dismissed it as 'evidence' of a problem. Everyone around the area knows what caused the damage.

The current proposal advocates increasing the size of the building, reducing the land in which to manoeuvre, maximising and stepping up deliveries. Factor in the car wash traffic, which frequently blocks both path and street and you get the picture.

[tomk]

> tomk, there is another 'desirable' retailer

> apparently ready to take on the site as is without

> increasing the footprint of the building

>

And due to their popularity, parking stress would still occur as customer numbers increase and employee numbers increase. Only difference re parking is the removal of a small underused car park. That was the point I was making - that the only way to guarantee no increase to parking stress is to leave everything empty and undeveloped.

[first mate]

Tomk, if the car park is not known about then signpost it and encourage store visitors to use it, that would ameliorate parking stress as well as leaving more room for deliveries. You stated earlier that you did not feel those visiting in cars would increase significantly, have you had a rethink?

[Louisa]

If only this area had better and closer train/tube networks we would be in a better position to accommodate a major retailer. I look to the M&S in Walworth RD and Brixton respectively. Both better connected, hence less stress on parking. A Simply Food would be highly convenient for upmarket shoppers not just in this area, but also Dulwich Village, Forest Hill and Peckham. We do not have a similar store within a few mile radius and it WILL attract higher footfall and some of that will be by car. Where will they park?

Louisa.

[Mick Mac]

I don't think it will attract people from other areas. I think it's more the type of retailer that people just pop into for a handful of items.

[Louisa]

MM I agree it is that type of store, however, people will inevitably come from places like the village because it is convenient for them - it's a short drive from a couple of private schools where parents may decide to drop off to grab a few items on the way to or from school. The question is, where will they park to do this?

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree wit micmac, it would actually be great by the station (where the Morissons is going). Would be nice to pick up a quick meal on the way home occassionally.

[Louisa]

And to add further spice to this new application, I contacted Waitrose who told me they had " No confirmed date yet for the opening of an East Dulwich store but keep checking out the website for updates." If this is the case, where on earth will they be locating? I can't think of anywhere?

Louisa.

[nxjen]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And to add further spice to this new application,

> I contacted Waitrose who told me they had " No

> confirmed date yet for the opening of an East

> Dulwich store but keep checking out the website

> for updates." If this is the case, where on earth

> will they be locating? I can't think of anywhere?

>

>

> Louisa

Waitrose isn't necessarily saying that an ED store is in the pipeline, more I see their reply as a bland, cover all eventuality response.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Maybe the plot on ED Road? Where the old offices are. Not the Lane, but plenty of residents nearby and Waitrose itself would be a draw.

[healey]

I can't see how this can be knocked back on parking issues. This retail and office unit has been there for decades and reworking the upper portions into flats seems like a perfectly legitimate use of space that is currently empty.

The car wash is a far greater nuisance.

[73jem]

In reply to Louisa [ where will we park ] I live in the area of Dulwich Village and the fact is that very few people that I know try to park around Lordship Lane, so if we are lucky enough to get an M&S I will get off the bus and shop in Lordship Lane on the way home rather than stopping in the Walworth Road or coming home via the M&S in Brixton.

[KalamityKel]

I would simply urge any forumite who are/will be effected by the proposals and objected to the last application - if you are still against the plans - to submit an objection to planning (or of course if you're in favour to say something too). You may have done so the last time but you need to do it again for this "new" application even if your concerns and comments are the same as before.

It's very easy for those who don't live anywhere near to the site to fail to see the implications of the development as it is also easy to think you can't be bothered to go through it all again or think it's going to be passed by planning this time so there's no real point in doing anything - if you don't do anything then you'll only have yourselves to blame if it really does go through and you're not happy about it.

[Alan Medic]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MM I agree it is that type of store, however,

> people will inevitably come from places like the

> village because it is convenient for them - it's a

> short drive from a couple of private schools where

> parents may decide to drop off to grab a few items

> on the way to or from school. The question is,

> where will they park to do this?

>

> Louisa.

I think you answered your own question. People won't come as there is nowhere to park.So there is nothing inevitable about the village people grabbing anything in a hurry.

[healey]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MM I agree it is that type of store, however,

> people will inevitably come from places like the

> village because it is convenient for them - it's a

> short drive from a couple of private schools where

> parents may decide to drop off to grab a few items

> on the way to or from school. The question is,

> where will they park to do this?

>

> Louisa.

The vast majority of people are going to pop in to get some food on the way home from work having used public transport. The co-op seems to manage just fine without any parking.

These parking concerns are a straw man.

[Louisa]

In response to 73gem and Alan Medic, I would hope that the majority of footfall will come from places like the village and forest hill via buses- and as mentioned a lot of people will use this store as a convenience when passing. That's what it is meant for. However, some will come from people in cars simply because it will be seen as a better option than the other nearest M&S stores. As drastic as this sounds, is there no way a handful of allocated spaces could be created for M&S customers only at the top of Chesterfield Grove? (near the car wash).

Louisa.

[bonaome]

James Barber Wrote: on the 9th May 2012, yes, that's May 2012

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Iceland lease is close to ending. M&S have an

> option to take the site over

I expect a year from now there will be a) Iceland happily trading in the same shop it's in now and b) no openings of M&S, Waitrose or Selfridges Metro etc on LL.

[Louisa]

Don't forget Harvey nicks local and Harrods convenience too.

Louisa.

[spider69]

Lets hope that this is the case.

Or let's get Iceland listed as a community asset

Will upset many people

[Louisa]

Oh how I would love Iceland to be listed as a working class community asset. One of the last in the area!

Louisa.