LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[northernmonkey]

I think that a lot of it used to come down Melbourne grove (ie along the south bit as a cut through) and then cut through Melbourne or Derwent if Melbourne looked busy - or be rushing up the streets to get to Matham - so that has been re routed. I also think that there is a hell of a lot of traffic from people driving to schools where they really don't need to so some of that will have evaporated.

There is also the point that lots of entrances onto a road causes greater congestion with more stop start of cars which is obviously worse for pollution (and wouldn't help with electric cars either as it is the breaking that produces more pm2.5). Maybe by not having traffic trying to constantly get out from these roads then the flow is smoother too - especially true of the section at the end of melbourne grove where the crossroads was just chaos.

[Dulwichgirl82]

I?m not entirely sure if you are agreeing traffic has got worse or not there?

The one thing I would agree is that the Melbourne grove junction was a mess, possibly a one way system would help there to prevent that.

Anyway what I would say is maybe look at the street space page. There?s a hell of a lot of people who feel traffic has got worse, many of whom live on the roads effected.

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that a lot of it used to come down

> Melbourne grove (ie along the south bit as a cut

> through) and then cut through Melbourne or Derwent

> if Melbourne looked busy - or be rushing up the

> streets to get to Matham - so that has been re

> routed. I also think that there is a hell of a

> lot of traffic from people driving to schools

> where they really don't need to so some of that

> will have evaporated.

>

> There is also the point that lots of entrances

> onto a road causes greater congestion with more

> stop start of cars which is obviously worse for

> pollution (and wouldn't help with electric cars

> either as it is the breaking that produces more

> pm2.5). Maybe by not having traffic trying to

> constantly get out from these roads then the flow

> is smoother too - especially true of the section

> at the end of melbourne grove where the crossroads

> was just chaos.

[Abe_froeman]

rahrah all your twitter link shows is that the flower beds have had no impact at all apart from for the people of "Dulwich Square" . "Clean Air for Dulwich " are saying there that the best case scenario is that congestion is exactly the same as it was before. what a joke

[Metallic]

East Dulwich Grove has Charter, Village, Jags, Alleyn's and the other Charter kids, all walking through the fug.

You can't close every road but it is hell for walkers and residents between Village Way and Townley. Same for the schools and nursery affected by displaced traffic in Croxted and Rosendale.

All those planters in Court Lane and Calton Avenue contain dry earth and dying plants. It is pathetic that people who love "Dulwich Square" or whatever the name is today, can't even make the vile planters look alive.

[exdulwicher]

All those planters in Court Lane and Calton Avenue contain dry earth and dying plants. It is pathetic that people who love "Dulwich Square" or whatever the name is today, can't even make the vile planters look alive.

Partly, it's the responsibility of the council although using it as a community benefit is certainly an option.

There was talk somewhere (might have been Oval LTN but I can't find it now) reporting that vandals had poisoned the plants by pouring oil into them. I mean there's being against the closures but poisoning soil and plants is despicable.

Manchester put a load of much more heavy duty ones in on Deansgate, a road which has long been a pain for footballers revving fast cars up and down it and restaurants / cafes campaigning for street closure to allow them to spread out into the street. The council put in massive cast iron ones with proper trees:

[first mate]

?There was talk somewhere (might have been Oval LTN but I can't find it now) reporting that vandals had poisoned the plants by pouring oil into them. I mean there's being against the closures but poisoning soil and plants is despicable.?

Come on exdulwicher, conflating the two is a bit much to make a point. Do you have hard evidence this was the work of anti- road closure protesters?

I could say, I?ve heard of a few cars being keyed locally, it?s all very well being anti car but keying them is despicable.

[exdulwicher]

Come on exdulwicher, conflating the two is a bit much to make a point. Do you have hard evidence this was the work of anti- road closure protesters?

https://road.cc/content/news/vandalism-oil-spread-road-anti-ltn-protests-turn-nasty-276865

My mistake, it was oil spread on the ROADS, not actually IN the planters. They were just overturned....

http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=info&page=ldrsroad003.htm

[first mate]

Agree, poor behaviour but one would think oil on the roads might also discourage cars..odd thing to do.

[sally buying]

.

[Spartacus]

Wandsworth have sent out the attached letter

Can't wait to see how Southwark word theirs 🤔

[heartblock]

I passed the planters in ?Dulwich Square? on my walk from a very busy EDG to the park. They were as dry as a bone and most of the plants were dead or dying. If EDG is made into a lovely traffic free road, I will be happy to water our planters.

[first mate]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wandsworth have sent out the attached letter

>

> Can't wait to see how Southwark word theirs

> 🤔

This seems to be a more reasonable response, especially in regard to emergency services.

[Soylent Green]

If the goal is to reduce pollution, creating a situation where people are sat in cars with their engines running, regularly accelerating to inch forward, is going to create far more pollution that traffic dispersing through a number of side roads, with the potential to reduce not only journey time (length of time car is polluting), but also distance travelled.

If the purpose of your journey is to do a big shop at Sainsbury's East Dulwich and you live on Trossachs road, for example, closed roads and congestion on main roads is not going to stop you going by car. It is just going to increase your journey time and pollution expelled from your vehicle.

[Penguin68]

If the goal is to reduce pollution,

But it's not. The Tory aim was to get people out of cars and onto bikes or their feet (assuming therefore that most car journeys are unladen and local) because that is 'healthier'; and Southwark's aim is simply to force cars out of Southwark as they are owned by kulaks and oppressors of the poor. By making car usage impossible you nudge people into either (a) giving up their cars or (b) moving - and moving the kulaks and oppressors of the poor out of Southwark is clearly a win.

In the short term, and ironically, it is the kulaks and oppressors of the poor who live in the gated communities now created (and they are in the more expensive parts locally) that are benefiting. But it's a long game the apparat is playing, no doubt.

[spider69]

East Dulwich traffic problem was on LBC, Nick F Show this morning. Justs before 0900

Lets hope Southwark heard and reacts

[Metallic]

Penguin68 Wrote:

>

> In the short term, and ironically, it is the

> kulaks and oppressors of the poor who live in the

> gated communities now created (and they are in the

> more expensive parts locally) that are benefiting.

> But it's a long game the apparat is playing, no

> doubt.

I never asked for any of this! My street is just a residential one but anyway it is as quiet as a grave thanks to a junction closure I never wanted.

[Spartacus]

From the BBC website today

BBC News - Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Anger, hate and the politics of the planter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54180647

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"Southwark's aim is simply to force cars out of Southwark as they are owned by kulaks and oppressors of the poor...it's a long game the apparat is playing, no doubt."

What I like about this conspiracy theory is that it requires adherents to believe that LTNs are covert class war waged by the Stalinist residents of Court Lane. I look forward to the LTN/antivax/antimask/secret lizard people mashup theory which all of this is presumably building up to.

[Penguin68]

What I like about this conspiracy theory is that it requires adherents to believe that LTNs are covert class war waged by the Stalinist residents of Court Lane.

No, you wholly misunderstand. The kulacks and oppressors of Court Lane want to create their scum free enclave as part of their capitalist desire to grind the faces of the poor - the Bolsheviks in Tooley St., working to a different agenda plan to use this both to achieve car free zones which will meet one of their agenda, and to allow righteous worker fury at the kulacks and oppressors to fuel the fires of revolution against the capitalist hegemony. Eventually a win: win.

Or maybe the Tooley St apparat will simply grab any straw in their war against privately owned vehicles and the owners thereof.

[Rockets]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> From the BBC website today

>

> BBC News - Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Anger, hate

> and the politics of the planter

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54180

> 647

Every day the pressure mounts on the closures. I think the BBC article hits the nail on the head with some of the challenges LTNs are facing. Public awareness of the problems they are causing is growing all the time.

When do the next phase of closures come in (Townley, Dulwich Village northbound, Turney, Burbage etc?).

I do wonder whether the new leader of Southwark council might be forced to take action.

[dulwichfolk]

New leader and new councillor in charge of signing off on all of these decisions....

[thebestnameshavegone]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I passed the planters in ?Dulwich Square? on my

> walk from a very busy EDG to the park. They were

> as dry as a bone and most of the plants were dead

> or dying. If EDG is made into a lovely traffic

> free road, I will be happy to water our planters.

Don't forget that a grown man / woman from One Dulwich spent some of their free time tearfully throwing the plants in those planters into the road 5 or 6 times since they got put in because they were upset about their journey taking an extra 10 minutes.

I'm not surprised they look worse for wear

[Metallic]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> heartblock Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I passed the planters in ?Dulwich Square? on my

> > walk from a very busy EDG to the park. They

> were

> > as dry as a bone and most of the plants were

> dead

> > or dying. If EDG is made into a lovely traffic

> > free road, I will be happy to water our

> planters.

>

> Don't forget that a grown man / woman from One

> Dulwich spent some of their free time tearfully

> throwing the plants in those planters into the

> road 5 or 6 times since they got put in because

> they were upset about their journey taking an

> extra 10 minutes.

>

> I'm not surprised they look worse for wear

Unless you saw this I suggest not repeating hearsay. And if you saw it, why not photograph the person doing it?

[Abe_froeman]

I'm not sure the council cabinet reshuffle is going to help. One of the new appointees has the title Member for Low Traffic

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> heartblock Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I passed the planters in ?Dulwich Square? on my

> > walk from a very busy EDG to the park. They

> were

> > as dry as a bone and most of the plants were

> dead

> > or dying. If EDG is made into a lovely traffic

> > free road, I will be happy to water our

> planters.

>

> Don't forget that a grown man / woman from One

> Dulwich spent some of their free time tearfully

> throwing the plants in those planters into the

> road 5 or 6 times since they got put in because

> they were upset about their journey taking an

> extra 10 minutes.

>

> I'm not surprised they look worse for wear

Source/proof? Sounds like an urban legend in the making.