H

[Alan Medic]

Yes, the letter and how to pronounce it. On a recent venture into the Family Room I noticed this came up for discussion as someone was horrified how little Jonny was pronouncing it.

As someone from a foreign land who took years learning how to pronounce anything with 'th' in it I was very interested, especially as if I have to spell my name to someone on the telephone as my surname includes the letter. Medic isn't my real name btw.

So I looked it up as I'm pretty sure my pronunciation of it depends on which side of the bed I get out of. I found this interesting (for me) article having done a search and came across this:

Aitch vs Haitch

British English dictionaries give aytch as the standard pronunciation for the letter H. However, the pronunciation haytch is also attested as a legitimate variant. We also do not ask broadcasters who naturally say haytch to change their pronunciation but if a broadcaster contacted to ask us, we would tell them that aytch is regarded as the standard pronunciation in British English, people can feel very strongly about this and this pronunciation is less likely to attract audience complaints.

Haytch is a standard pronunciation in Irish English and is increasingly being used by native English-speaking people all across the country, irrespective of geographical provenance or social standing. Polls have shown that the uptake of haytch by younger native speakers is on the rise. Schoolchildren repeatedly being told not to drop Hs may cause them to hyper-correct and insert them where they don't exist.

Jo Kim

BBC Pronunciation Unit

My question is to the good people of the EDF, why is the Irish English version now being used to this extent? You all must be mortified.

[bon3yard]

There are a few recurring pedants on here who delight in picking holes in fellow forumites use of the Queens but I suspect the vast majority couldnt give a toss.

[zeban]

Actually I can't stand it when I hear adults saying 'haitch'- if you're Irish then fine but if you're a native english speaker of this country then it drives me mad. It's not some kind of colloquial slang it's just the wrong pronounciation so there's no excuse. It wouldn't bother me if I heard it from a non-native english speaker but the only people I've ever heard saying it seem to be english.

[dulwichgirl2]

Haitch is incorrect. People can say what they like but in the UK, you are judged on your pronunciation and grammar so it is wise to speak properly.

[zeban]

I don't know about being judged on it, that's a bit extreme! I think a lot people are probably more laxed about it than most and wouldn't really care. I think many people are more forgiving than you think dulwichgirl, unless you're talking about an interview for Oxford! I wouldn't judge someone purely on their grammar, it just drives me mad to hear it!

[titch juicy]

language changes, always has

not a bad thing

[Alan Medic]

I didn't know which one was correct. It's funny, when you don't know any better you don't understand why other people might get hung up on something so 'petty'. On the other hand I hear so many people in this country say 'we was' which I am hung up about. Bottom line is, there is a little genie inside one of the bottles inside us and he's called 'judgemental'. He likes to get out. When he does, he will tell you you are right and you should feel good about that, but actually his sole purpose is to make you feel miserable.

PS Zeban, what's so ok about it being alright if you are Irish?

[uncleglen]

It's got to be 'aitch'. Can you imagine Eric Delco in CSI Miami calling Horatio Cane 'Haytch'? Absolutely not- it's 'aitch'.

[dulwichgirl2]

I didn't say "purely", Zeban.

It is part of the overall impression tHat the speaker will create; many aspects contribute to the final views people have of others.

[minder]

Hi Jo Kim, I'm actually more mortified that there's a BBC Pronunciation Unit! Ha Ha!

Just because some of us pronounce H as Haytch instead of Aytch what's the big deal?

I've always said Haytch/Haitch by the way. My husband pronounces it with an A but both our families are from London/Irish/Welsh trees.

I'm a registered childminder and regularly sing the ABC song to lots of groups but no-one has ever complained about it.

[minder]

Zeban, my son (now 19) left his 6th form college and was lucky enough to be invited by Oxford to stay 3 days and nights, free of charge, which he did and which we were pleased about at the time.

They turned him down but months later he went on to pass all his A levels and has now passed again for another year at King's College, London.

J is very down to earth and gets on with anybody (like me) but in the end I think it all comes down to class.

On J's records at King's, Mum and Dad are classed as 'manual labourers' so I don't think Oxford would have been prepared for this.

Anyway, I wish I'd had the opps he had now, whether or not he pronouned his H's the right way.

[KalamityKel]

so aitch for arry now is it? hehehe so posh! ;-)

[dulwichgirl2]

Minder, that is very interesting - your son was invited for three days before his results were in. Doesn't that demonstrate if anything positive discrimination? I have heard of not one able pupil from st pauls or Westminster being invited in this way. I wonder what subject he wanted to read.

[dulwichgirl2]

The BBC has a unit so that newsreaders avoid embarrassing mistakes. As it is the UK's public service broadcaster it is appropriate that it represents the country well and, for example, avoids creating diplomatic incidents with tricky names or preferences. With the rise of china and tonal language, it is essential to avoid saying things that mean eg Mr Death when his name is written as Fred, or whatever.

[northlondoner]

Haitch is just plain wrong. It's the lingusitic equiavalent of holding your fork in your right hand during dinner. Or supper.

[Alan Medic]

Does 'Or supper' constitute a sentence?

[zeban]

minder I'm a bit confused what that story has to do with a. what the thread is about and b. why it was addressed to me! I'm very much working class myself but I pronounce aitch 'aitch'!

[Alan Medic]

Hey Zeban,you still haven't said why it's ok for the Irish to pronounce it haitch!

[Huguenot]

Is it true that in Ireland, catholic schools teach haitch, whilst Protestant ones teach aitch?

Apparently this also happens in Australia?

[Alan Medic]

That's bollox H......ha. I went through the catholic school system in Ireland and was never told one ting or de udder.

[giggirl]

Aitch

[zeban]

because in your OP you said 'Haytch is a standard pronunciation in Irish English '!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Don't know Huguenot, but it's been standard fare for thrillers set during the troubles as a way of sorting out the men from the bhoys.

[edcam]

It's a itch dammit!

[Alan Medic]

zeban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> because in your OP you said 'Haytch is a standard

> pronunciation in Irish English '!

I feckin did not ya silly moo.