Aggressive man - Peckham rye park

[binkylilyput]

He sounds unwell

999 should be called to prevent someone from getting harmed and to get him help

[fishbiscuits]

lindylou Wrote:

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> This man threw a cup of hot coffee in a ladies

> face today in Peckham rye park and knocked an

> elderly man to the ground.

Why didn't a couple of bystanders perform a "citizens arrest"? Similar to when that guy pushed an old boy onto the tube tracks.

Yes he's undoubtedly extremely unwell, but I'm afraid my sympathy stops quite a long way short of "poor guy". He is dangerous and shouldn't be out among the public.

I'm far from confident/competent in physical confrontation, but I'm not sure if I could forgive myself if I just stood by while women and the elderly were being assaulted.

[Callie]

I wonder if anyone has actually talked to the police about him, it doesn?t sound as if he?s even been reported because nothing has been done:(

[Bishberro]

Worryingly a thread popped up on my Neighbourhood account about a woman being sexually assaulted on East Dulwich Grove at 2.30pm yesterday. The only description being this guy had two obvious scars on his face. I just wondered if they could they be linked to this guy?

[Shivering swan1]

Yes, there seems to have been a few people who for whatever reason have not immediately dialled 999 and got this lunatic off the streets, am I missing here or are people just exaggerating the incidents detailed on this thread?

[Chuckd]

When the incident happened to me I didn't deem it that serious and then read more about other incidents on here. At that point I made an online report of the incident on the Met website as I believe other people have.

[binkylilyput]

Shivering swan1 this man is clearly a risk to others and all are in agreement that the police should be involved but your language is offensive, as is questioning why he hasn't been assaulted

[ianr]

If anyone does have cause to call 999, I think I'd make a point of mentioning, not just the immediate act that triggered the call, but also, if appropriate, the fact that the person matches the description of the perpetrator of number of other instances of spontaneous 'random' threatening behaviour or assault in the area over the past week.

[contented sow]

I dialled 999 on Sunday morning when he pushed my friend in PR park and I witnessed him attacking others. I couldn?t stay but was told police were there looking for him. I don?t know the outcome (hence creating this thread) so I very much hope they?re aware there is serious concern.

[apmuso]

Just seen this guy walking up Greendale towards JAGS. Clearly not well. Being aggressive with anyone who makes eye contact. Flagged a police car down and gave them his description and whereabouts.

[Penguin68]

All the descriptions here suggest the man is displaying clear signs of psychotic behaviour - the police are neither trained nor resourced to act as psychiatrists - all they can do is to lock him up, and we know that this is frequently a precursor to self-harm, or worse, injury caused by police attempts to restrain someone not criminal but mad. Ideally he should probably be sectioned and hospitalised, but there are woeful shortages of acute beds. The waiting list for tertiary (hospital) psychiatric care is many months if not longer. It may be that he has medication but is refusing to take it - and people cannot be obliged or compelled to take medicine unless sectioned. This is a problem which is not simply soluble by dialling '999'. Anything the police can do will only be very short term. And probably pretty useless (other than protecting individuals currently at risk).

[Blah Blah]

I disagree penguin. If he is displaying psychotic behaviour, a Police psychiatrist will section him. Then medical professionals will assess the risk, esp if he is not taking his medication, and go from there.

[roywj]

Throwing hot coffee in a woman?s face and throwing an elderly man to the floor is a criminal offence and Police should intervene.

Agree with blah blah, Police will be able to get him support if required. Talk on here about mental health issues is just speculation. Unfortunately he seems to be targeting more vulnerable people in our community and I hope he gets picked up soon.

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> All the descriptions here suggest the man is

> displaying clear signs of psychotic behaviour -

> the police are neither trained nor resourced to

> act as psychiatrists - all they can do is to lock

> him up, and we know that this is frequently a

> precursor to self-harm, or worse, injury caused by

> police attempts to restrain someone not criminal

> but mad. Ideally he should probably be sectioned

> and hospitalised, but there are woeful shortages

> of acute beds. The waiting list for tertiary

> (hospital) psychiatric care is many months if not

> longer. It may be that he has medication but is

> refusing to take it - and people cannot be obliged

> or compelled to take medicine unless sectioned.

> This is a problem which is not simply soluble by

> dialling '999'. Anything the police can do will

> only be very short term. And probably pretty

> useless (other than protecting individuals

> currently at risk).

[dimples]

I went to Peckham rye park this afternoon with my dog and there was a policeman stationed in the park for the whole hour I was there . He was stationary on a bike and I wondered what he was looking out for ?!

[Penguin68]

If he is displaying psychotic behaviour, a Police psychiatrist will section him. Then medical professionals will assess the risk, esp if he is not taking his medication, and go from there.

You are making assumptions that doctors (you need two) are available to section him, and that there is space in a medium secure unit for him to be housed (his behaviour is clearly aggressive and simply putting him on a general psychiatric ward may well not be suitable). Frequently the only space - at least short term - where someone displaying psychotic behaviour to be held is a police cell, and the police are neither trained, nor are police cells suitable, for this. What you are describing is an ideal - I do know that waiting times for patients with mental problems which require psychiatric intervention are bad and getting worse.

[roywj]

So what are you suggesting? People should not bother calling the Police in case it's due to mental health issues?

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If he is displaying psychotic behaviour, a Police

> psychiatrist will section him. Then medical

> professionals will assess the risk, esp if he is

> not taking his medication, and go from there.

>

> You are making assumptions that doctors (you need

> two) are available to section him, and that there

> is space in a medium secure unit for him to be

> housed (his behaviour is clearly aggressive and

> simply putting him on a general psychiatric ward

> may well not be suitable). Frequently the only

> space - at least short term - where someone

> displaying psychotic behaviour to be held is a

> police cell, and the police are neither trained,

> nor are police cells suitable, for this. What you

> are describing is an ideal - I do know that

> waiting times for patients with mental problems

> which require psychiatric intervention are bad and

> getting worse.

[Dexters Mum]

I spoke to 2 police officers on Wednesday who were telling me 6 officers had spend 3 hours restraining a 21 yr old male mental health patient at KCH, they had arrested him 3 days prior where he was put into the Maudsley and released. Police are stretched beyond need, mental health services are stretched beyond need and these situations are only going to become more frequent.

[Blah Blah]

If he commits assault (as he already has) and is arrested and charged, a court could detain him under the mental health act and send him to a secure unit. The Maudsley is a hospital, not a secure unit. SO I suspect if the aggressive behaviour continues, that is where he will end up.

[Penguin68]

So what are you suggesting? People should not bother calling the Police in case it's due to mental health issues?

No, of course not, but what I am saying is that 'calling the police' does not simply solve the problem, except in terms of short term safety for the public. 'Calling the police' where a mentally ill patient is concerned, as it appears may be the case here, is the start of a long and difficult process - and one the police are ill equipped and resourced to deliver. '999' in and of itself is not a solution (as it may be for the simply criminal). Police are about dealing with crime, not mental health issues save where immediate safety (of the public or the mentally ill person) is concerned.

[Blah Blah]

Penguin, the only way to get someone who is a danger to the public off the street is through the Police and courts into a secure mental health unit. So calling the Police is absolutely the right thing to do. And just to add that sectioning and detention are different things. Staff at any hospital will also call Police if a patient is threatening them. Only secure units are designed to treat people detained via the MHA.

[cw_1984]

I have seen this guy three times in the last week-10 days between the Tesco on East Dulwich Road and Greendale/East Dulwich Grove.

I recognised him as someone suffering from mental health/drug issues immediately having had experience around people who suffer from this. I knew it was the same guy as he had the same jacket each time and the same walk. The first two times I was walking and he locked eyes with me and may have mumbled something but i'm quite a big guy and keep myself to myself so he never approached me. The third time I was driving and he was swinging his arms and kept looking behind himself as he approached Lordship Lane.

We have small children and have to walk down Greendale and my partner has to walk home down there when it is now dark as early as 5pm so I hope that the situation is being properly monitored. Is there we can do to anything we can do to help/inform the local Police? He is clearly doing the same route (Greendale - Peckham Rye Park up EDG/EDR)if that helps them.

[Penguin68]

Penguin, the only way to get someone who is a danger to the public off the street is through the Police and courts into a secure mental health unit.

This is simply not true. Within my own extended family one individual was sectioned at the behest and instigation of his parents - the police were not directly involved, and certainly not the courts. A patient presenting to a doctor and not prepared to accept treatment may, again, be sectioned if the doctor (with a colleague) believes that is in his or her best interests. Of course, when an individual is acting in a threatening manner, or attacking people, the police can be called and will act to their best capabilities, but they are not properly trained or resourced to be an NHS outreach service.

'Sectioning' an individual is something that happens instead of a court being involved.

[KidKruger]

Yeah a mate of mine was sectioned twice.

No police, no courts.

[binkylilyput]

Both are correct. A person can be sectioned under the MHA with or without police involvement.

If a person is in public and/ or behaving in a manner that suggests mental health difficulties and risks the police will be involved in order to securely take the person to a designated 136 assessment suite where they can be assessed by mental health professionals.

I hope he has now been found

[Bishberro]

This man clearly has mental health issues but he needs to be arrested and taken off the streets before he severely injures someone. It is a police issue primarily because he's walking around committing crimes - attacking people and kids, throwing coffee in people's faces and it looks potentially like the same person who sexually assaulted a young woman at 2.30pm on East Dulwich Grove. I have an 11-year-old who goes to school around this area and I'm worried as he wouldn't necessarily know how to react if approached by this man and I've had to warn him about this. Does anyone know if he has been caught?