The East London Line extension

[Jeremy]

You'll struggle to find a decent pub near some of those stations!

[antantant]

Otta, it's not just after 7pm on Sundays. It's after 7pm every evening, and all day Sunday.

[Undisputedtruth]

Just to clarify in response to antantant and Otta's posts.

Trains from Denmark Hill to Victoria after 8 December 2012 once the South London Line has been removed

Monday to Saturday - 2 trains per hour throughout the day but no service after 7pm or before 7am.

Sunday - no service.

[Otta]

Ah okay, I misread your post and thought you just meant Sundays. My bad.

[anonymous_third_part]

antantant Wrote:

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> Otta, it's not just after 7pm on Sundays. It's

> after 7pm every evening, and all day Sunday.

Isn't there a plan to add an additional service outside of peak hours though?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15403.aspx

[Undisputedtruth]

"Funding constraints mean we are focusing on one element of Option 7, the proposal that existing Kent services stop at Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye stations at peak periods. "

Yes anonymous_third_party, there are plans to have an additional service to Victoria but it's far from certain whether it will happen and certainly won't happen until after April 2014. It's all subjected to funding restraints and franchise agreements. I quoted a part of the TfL website in order to give further info on how difficult this matter can be where Kent rail users were up in arms after hearing that their train service could call at Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill stations. It would be interesting to see what happens as Boris Johnson has indicated in his election manifesto about exploring this solution once the SLL service has been axed.

There's a Southeastern consultation, not to be confused with the current combined Thameslink one, taking place and due to end September for a new franchise starting in April 2014. So you may want to give them your views on an additional Victoria service along the South London line route.

The daft thing here is that the South London Line is the cheapest and most effective solution than the seven proposed options on the TfL website for providing a Victoria service.

[Borderlands]

As a daily commuter using Denmark Hill, I am absolutely dreading the reduction in services to Victoria.

I used to cycle (for about 10 years) but the route to work was simply too filthy, frightening and tiring so I stopped.

Then I used the bus - It was entirely down to luck whether I got to work on time - it was so slow and awful - sometimes it would take me around an hour and half to get to West London from Camberwell, and sometimes 30 minutes (never ever predictable). AGONY.

Then cottoned on to the trains from Denmark Hill to Victoria: brilliant. Even when trains are packed (most rush hours) at least it takes generally between 9-16 mins and you arrive at Victoria ready for other connections.

But most of us realised early on during the "consultation" that the decision had already been made to undermine a really useful route, so that the City is favoured for train travel, and the rest of us are made to use buses (so the moneyed don't have to mix with hoi polloi/workers).

Don't know what I am going to be forced to do. I have come in occasionally via Clapham Junction - a total nightmare of crossing platforms, missing connections and of course, it's mad to force commuters further out to get back in to central London.

[Chillaxed]

Borderlands, I can assure you that trains into the City are not exclusively ridden by 'the moneyed'. 300,000 people work in the City and only a fraction of them are loaded. And very few of those use the trains.

[Borderlands]

I know, you're right - it's just the tone of the proposals were all about the requirements of the City. Anyway here is a link to a Peckham site:

http://www.bellenden.net/srug/news/save-south-london-line-latest-news-0

Let's keep the pressure up to make sure some replacement/additional service is made available.

[Undisputedtruth]

Boderlands, can you change your link to this one http://www.bellenden.net/srug/news/campaign-save-our-services-victoria as the new transport minister is Theresa Villiers and the campaign for the SLL has moved on.

I don't think the city requirements was the main reason for the axed SLL. TfL wanted to build a circular outer London train route.

[gm99]

Looks like things are on track (no pun intended) for the ELL opening - saw an ELL/London Overground train on Platform 2 at Peckham Rye on Tuesday evening.

[Undisputedtruth]

I think Edcam requires cast iron proof as reports of visual sightings are not enough for him.

[edcam]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> I think Edcam requires cast iron proof as reports

> of visual sightings are not enough for him.

I'm not quite sure what is lacking in your life that makes you resort to trying to pick fights over matters of little importance on an internet forum but it's all rather sad. FYI I don't really care enough about the ELL to obsess about it. It can open on time or 6 months late. Don't really give a toss either way!

Just noticed you posted at 3.25am? That makes the picture clearer!

[Undisputedtruth]

Just making a point. But since you're not able to ascertain facts then whatever opinions you have about me are fundamentally flawed.

[edcam]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> Just making a point.

To who? Do you think anyone really cares?

[Undisputedtruth]

I'll keeping banging the same point because people are happy to give out wrong information and then blame the person for correcting them.

[Undisputedtruth]

Bic Basher Wrote:

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> May I suggest people visit the Railforumsuk thread

> where a sensible discussion of this topic by

> transport insiders has been discussed without the

> need for being agressive. Even the legendary EDF

> transport user can add his two pennies worth if he

> signs up.

>

> http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=69548

I don't think these people are transport insiders. And if they are then more likely to be in a very junior capacity such as sweeping the platforms. Perhaps that is why they are blocking my posts.

[LondonMix]

gm99-- Do you know if there is a published timetable already for the new ELL service?

gm99 Wrote:

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> Looks like things are on track (no pun intended)

> for the ELL opening - saw an ELL/London Overground

> train on Platform 2 at Peckham Rye on Tuesday

> evening.

[Undisputedtruth]

Just because gm99 spotted an ELL train doesn't mean he/she knows where December-2012 timetable is published.

ETA: as previously discusssed on the thread, ELL trains are currently undergoing testing along the new route and driver training.

[Bic Basher]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bic Basher Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > May I suggest people visit the Railforumsuk

> thread

> > where a sensible discussion of this topic by

> > transport insiders has been discussed without

> the

> > need for being agressive. Even the legendary

> EDF

> > transport user can add his two pennies worth if

> he

> > signs up.

> >

> > http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=69548

>

> I don't think these people are transport insiders.

> And if they are then more likely to be in a very

> junior capacity such as sweeping the platforms.

> Perhaps that is why they are blocking my posts.

If you have a genuine complaint, raise it with the administration team at Rail UK Forums.

The thread over there gave you ample opportunity to put your reasons for keeping the SLL open and you were asked for your solutions. The members gave you reasons for why some of your solutions wouldn't work and you disagreed in typical UDT style which may had led to you being put on moderation.

[Undisputedtruth]

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Undisputedtruth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Bic Basher Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > May I suggest people visit the Railforumsuk

> > thread

> > > where a sensible discussion of this topic by

> > > transport insiders has been discussed without

> > the

> > > need for being agressive. Even the legendary

> > EDF

> > > transport user can add his two pennies worth

> if

> > he

> > > signs up.

> > >

> > >

> http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=69548

> >

> > I don't think these people are transport

> insiders.

> > And if they are then more likely to be in a

> very

> > junior capacity such as sweeping the platforms.

> > Perhaps that is why they are blocking my posts.

>

> If you have a genuine complaint, raise it with the

> administration team at Rail UK Forums.

>

> The thread over there gave you ample opportunity

> to put your reasons for keeping the SLL open and

> you were asked for your solutions. The members

> gave you reasons for why some of your solutions

> wouldn't work and you disagreed in typical UDT

> style which may had led to you being put on

> moderation.

In view of one of the administrators and others' simplistic views and short attention timespan then I really can't be bothered to complain. My view is that there are no industry insiders ot that website as you claimed on this forum. Platform sweepers, yes, but no industry insiders. It's like the other wild claim when you said you can travel on the outer south London line by using the same inner south london line rail pass because some unknown person said on a website without checking official clarification. Thus basically what you're doing is inciting others to break the law and risk a criminal record due to your flawed belief that these rail forums are run by industry insiders.

As I said before on the other forum, I wanted to explain the case for retaining the SLL. I should not be censored for doing so. Anyway, I will not be wasting my time with platform sweepers anymore.

ETA: I have done nothing wrong as I have recived no PMs from their admin. Sorry Bic Basher but it's a case of cowardly censorship.

[Zebedee Tring]

What's wrong with being a platform sweeper? Are these people members of some lower social order who are not allowed to have an opinion?

[Bic Basher]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> ETA: I have done nothing wrong as I have recived

> no PMs from their admin. Sorry Bic Basher but it's

> a case of cowardly censorship.

Or quite simply your behaviour which for some unknown reason is tolerated here was dealt with adequately. There's trolling on a local forum where you can be the supposed bad man of the board with the hilarious quotes which even I find funny or the rude comments you dish out to people who disagree with you.

If you quit the trolling and discussed some of the valid points that you've raised without resorting to primary school behaviour, then you may find that people may discuss the topic with you sensibly, but I think everyone is beneath you, so there's no point when you put yourself on that pedestal.

It does the pro-SLL cause no good when you resort to such behaviour.

[LondonMix]

Bic,

Someone mentioned something about Thameslink and Peckham. Do you have a link or more information about that? Also, do you know if TFL did any passenger surveys regarding final destination before eliminating the SLL?

Thanks,

LM

[Undisputedtruth]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> What's wrong with being a platform sweeper? Are

> these people members of some lower social order

> who are not allowed to have an opinion?

Nothing wrong with being a platform sweeper but Bic Basher was claiming there were industry insiders on the other forum. In view of their simplistic view and inability to understand concepts behind number crunching then Bic Basher's claims were ratherly over-optimistic though some might say wild exaggeration.