Why are non essential shops still open?!

[keano77]

Ask her, she grassed ?em up

[Jonny Comfort]

The difference is all of these businesses have responsibly updated their policy and no longer offer collection..

[bikpon]

.

[shelly2106]

Dominoe's just open for delivery not collection

[JL Dulwich]

I think there's still confusion over what Government guidance is. The helpful 'What constitutes a reasonable excuse' doc produced by the CPS (and I'm pretty sure published on this forum) gives guidance to police on what may constitute a reasonable excuse to leave one's home. This includes "...the purchase of snacks and luxuries."

The guidance goes on to state, "If a person is already out of the address with good reason, then it would not be proportionate to prevent the person from buying non- essential items." So, if you've gone out for your exercise, and you fancy an ice-cream on the way home, that's perfectly reasonable. If you, as an individual, feel that puts you at extra risk, it's your choice not to do so, but I think it's unreasonable to condemn others for doing so.

There is also guidance on Gov.uk regarding which businesses have been required to close. This states that restaurants / pubs / wine bars / cafes / supermarkets and "other food and drink establishments" can remain open for "the provision of hot or cold food that has been prepared for consumers for collection or delivery to be consumed, reheated or cooked by consumers off the premises."

So, I think Oddons is operating within the guidance, and the original poster was a perhaps a bit quick off the mark to assume they were bending rules.

[Cyclemonkey]

Exactly. It is judging and finger pointing of the worst kind. More of it is wrong judging and finger pointing. They are operating perfectly lawfully. Now if you have an issue with the safety of their queue or operations that is a different matter.

[Lynne]

What is essential, anyway? An awful of of people think meat and fish aren't essential, yet no-one has suggested the butchers and fish shop close.

[bikpon]

.

[keano77]

Following on from Lynnes?s point. What would be the difference between 20 people queuing up for ice-cream and 20 people queuing up for meat outside William Rose?

Some would argue meat is not essential and does more harm to the planet.

There are large queues outside pharmacies. Yes, medicines are essential. However, some of the people with prescriptions would be better off running around the park and getting some exercise and getting fit and they wouldn?t need some of the medication.

Are some queues more morally acceptable than others?

[Cyclemonkey]

Exactly and who are you to judge what sacrifices people are making? Some of us have not seen elderly parents for weeks and will not until this is over. Some of us who live in flats have nowhere to be outside. Some of us who are key workers are working 12 - 15 hour days every day.

We are all doing our bit. It would be a damn sight easier to do our bit if some people would refrain from being so self righteous and judgemental.

[bikpon]

.

[Cyclemonkey]

That is your risk appetite, others may vary.

No one is forcing you to queue for ice cream. You are more likely to pick it up during a longer supermarket shop than a quick in and out trip to an ice cream shop.

You need to understand the difference between things that are allowed and things you personally don't wish to do. I personally do not wish to travel on buses at the moment. However I am not jumping up and down telling people they should not get buses if they wish to.

[Penguin68]

If I was a health worker in this weather coming off a long shift (in overheating PPE) I would welcome an ice-cream on my way home - but apparently that need isn't 'essential' enough for some. By all means choose not to queue for or buy ice-cream yourself, but don't try to take away (see what I did there) something allowed by government and valued by many. Lock-down is about safety, not puritan values.

[ED_2010]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

1. When am I allowed to leave the house?

You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:

shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible

one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household

any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person

travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home

[Cyclemonkey]

What if people infrequently get an ice cream whilst out on an infrequent shop for essentials or on their way home from essential work?

[fishbiscuits]

I think it's within the regulations, so I don't think reporting them is the right thing to do. It might not be within some people's interpretation of the spirit of the rules (myself included) but there's not much we can do about it. I don't blame a business for wanting to continue trading where possible.

[Cyclemonkey]

I wasn't aware the spirit of the regulations was to be as joyless as possible.

[Yeslovewhatcanigetu]

Let?s give shops the chance to survive if they can - they?re not flouting any guidelines. If people queue sensibly then they?re not putting anyone at risk - let them have an ice cream! I?m aghast someone felt it appropriate to report this shop as an immediate course of action!

[Beulah]

Oddono's is open? Excellent. Didn't note down their opening hours by any chance?

[alice]

You are all invincible till someone you love gets it.

[malumbu]

I hadn't spotted this thread before. It would be helpful if there was a separate section on the forum. The Covid-19 part could cover all useful stuff on the matter, the positive response from individuals and communities, threads asking for advice and support, and where to get this and the like. We could then have a separate section where shops, joggers, cyclists and the like could be criticised, as this is spread out on three sections. It would be good to have a one stop shop.

But as I also have a story to share, when I had my adenoids out as a six year old, and spent 8 days in hospital (it would probably be in and out and keyhole surgery now); ice cream was definitely an essential food. I also did a study on hospitals irradiating food for immmuno-supressed patients and again ice cream was considered to be important for complementing the generally dire diet of autoclaved food. https://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:34077959 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0969806X09000942 Ice cream is a feel good food, and we need this sort of treat at the moment.

[tomszekeres]

http://dulwichdelivers.com suggests that:

Oddono's are offering home delivery via Uber Eats

https://www.ubereats.com/gb/london/food-delivery/oddonos-east-dulwich/qs6FtnQoR_u068RWFxxZqQ

And Herne Hill's minus 12 also offering home delivery

http://www.minus12.co.uk/

You can get pretty much anything delivered to your door, contact-free, so why risk queueing?

[keano77]

I don?t have the answer to this but it?s quite possible the (brave) delivery person has visited several households to deliver the ordered food/treats so has potentially been exposed to numerous families from all walks of life (germs on gates, doorbells etc).

Is that any safer than queuing orderly outside Odonos or William Rose?

[Cyclemonkey]

Again it is down to indivdual risk appetite within the framework the government has given us.

[dbboy]

Seems like some just can't help themselves, bending and mis-interpreting the Govt. guidance, whatever the consequences and sod the inconvenience everyone else is putting up with just so long as they can parade around shoving something cold and wet down their own throats. If their was no trade the shop would close as it wouldn't be financially viable to remain open with no trade. Hope you enjoyed sucking your gelato.

Perhaps you can read and inwardly digest the meaning of; STAY HOME, SAVE LIVES, PROTECT THE NHS

When you've had to watch a loved be on a respiratory ward and have to breath through a Non Invasive Ventilator (NIV)/Nippy (go google it) then you'll maybe just appreciate how damn serious this virus is, think pneumonia and multiply that by 1000 times, I promise you it wasn't pleasant to see first hand, them gasping for breath.

Finally, if you've had the mis-fortune to be on a ventilator, I was four years ago for nearly three weeks, I can tell you first hand it messes with both your body and mind for the rest of your life, I have no recollection of those weeks or even arriving at hospital.