Its a minefield...

[pk]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk Wrote:

>

>

> okay. pk, im done with you my friend. you may

> dislike my posts, and have a mission to just shoot

> me down, rather than actually engage. that's fine.

> But the fact is you still cant say ANYTHING

> constructive. you snipe and snipe, but never

> actually say anything of value. love me or hate me

> (or not really give a sh!t about me)....one thing

> i can never be accused of is not putting a view

> out there; allowing it to be torn down by the

> likes of you...someone who cant formulate an

> arguement (and expose it to criticism) to save

> themselves.

yawn

>

> also. its obvious the last quote is you. its the

> most simple thing i've read on this thread.

wrong

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Let?s start making changes by teaching our kids, they will be the generation that can make the important changes that we need, if they are taught from young the truth about our history. https://www.instagram.com/theblackcurriculum/

[ED Bird]

You know what isn't a good look {no, of course you don't} white people with their white privilege showing their complete disregard for the injustice black people face to this day. Between you posting a thread with more concern for some white journalist working for the BBC, PK dragging down a serious topic just to feel that white power coursing through his veins right now, & Malumbu stealing the spotlight with his white fragility, like a group of white people sitting around singing kumbaya is the solution. It didn't work then & it isn't working now. But every single one of you just loves to throw the word "racist" around when you're trying to make them choose a political side, neither of which actually helps the black community. You are the problem. Go back & read those quotes by black men & find those black women to understand why they will not side with you no matter how much you accuse people of racism.

Be ashamed of yourselves that not a single one of you bothered to break the silence & confront the issue on systematic racism on a self-proclaimed anti-fascist, labour voting forum. Not a single one of you.

DulwichBorn&Bred is mixed race. If she's willing to try, then WTF is your excuse? Sit your asses down & be schooled.

{Quote removed because this wasn't aimed directly at JohnL}.

[JohnL]

ED Bird Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Hmmm

> >

> > Not a good look at all - It's a free country

> it's

> > a free forum (subject to the administrator).

> >

> > Edit: Mind I haven't heard about "the clique" in

> a

> > while.

>

>

>

>

>

> You know what isn't a good look {no, of course you

> don't} white people with their white privilege

> showing their complete disregard for the injustice

> black people face to this day. Between you posting

> a thread with more concern for some white

> journalist working for the BBC, PK dragging down a

> serious topic just to feel that white power

> coursing through his veins right now, & Malumbu

> stealing the spotlight with his white fragility,

> like a group of white people sitting around

> singing kumbaya is the solution. It didn't work

> then & it isn't working now. But every single one

> of you just loves to throw the word "racist"

> around when you're trying to make them choose a

> political side, neither of which actually helps

> the black community. You are the problem. Go back

> & read those quotes by black men & find those

> black women to understand why they will not side

> with you no matter how much you accuse people of

> racism.

>

> Be ashamed of yourselves that not a single one of

> you bothered to break the silence & confront the

> issue on systematic racism on a self-proclaimed

> anti-fascist, labour voting forum. Not a single

> one of you.

>

>

> DulwichBorn&Bred is mixed race. If she's willing

> to try, then WTF is your excuse? Sit your ass down

> & be schooled.

OH - Lay off I didn't criticise any poster just said we all are allowed to post or shall I go back to Gwlad.com.

Check the longest thread on the forum (I don't write on it) as ther is no bandwidth issue or server issue on here.

[JohnL]

I'm fed up of the personal accusations on here.

[JohnL]

deleted.

[uncleglen]

Amazon synopsis of Owen Jones' 'Chavs: the Demonisation of the Working Class'

I have a 'Chav' (i.e. Essex,) accent, and since a black 14 year old asked me in school if I was 'Common' (to which I replied- 'no, there is only one of me') I realised that divisiveness is rampant everywhere....Liberals have also tried to be 'friends' with the white working classes- but only succeeded in doing them down- the only 'friend' the working classes had was Mrs Thatcher who let them buy their own homes.

Tony Crossland (Charterhouse educated btw) of Labour made sure that the working classes did not 'get educated' by getting rid of grammar schools...

[JohnL]

UncleG just cheered me up a bit :)

[Chick]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Amazon synopsis of Owen Jones' 'Chavs: the

> Demonisation of the Working Class'

>

> I have a 'Chav' (i.e. Essex,) accent, and since a

> black 14 year old asked me in school if I was

> 'Common' (to which I replied- 'no, there is only

> one of me') I realised that divisiveness is

> rampant everywhere....Liberals have also tried to

> be 'friends' with the white working classes- but

> only succeeded in doing them down- the only

> 'friend' the working classes had was Mrs Thatcher

> who let them buy their own homes.

> Tony Crossland (Charterhouse educated btw) of

> Labour made sure that the working classes did not

> 'get educated' by getting rid of grammar

> schools...

Tossa

[ED Bird]

JohnL, whilst I still stand by my earlier post, I have to apologise, as the entirety of the message was aimed at everyone who participates in the aforementioned behaviour, not directly at you. Reading back on my post it looks like I'm aiming a fireball directly at you. Even the opening of your thread did not conjur my reaction, but rather the lively response it recieved.

I'm not the most articulate. I'll leave this to DulwichBorn&Bred!

[JohnL]

@edbird That's OK - I'm one of the worst at expressing what I think seriously, so I know it comes across like my posts are very trivial sometimes :)

[TheCat]

ED Bird Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You know what isn't a good look {no, of course you

> don't} white people with their white privilege

> showing their complete disregard for the injustice

> black people face to this day. Between you posting

> a thread with more concern for some white

> journalist working for the BBC, PK dragging down a

> serious topic just to feel that white power

> coursing through his veins right now, & Malumbu

> stealing the spotlight with his white fragility,

> like a group of white people sitting around

> singing kumbaya is the solution. It didn't work

> then & it isn't working now. But every single one

> of you just loves to throw the word "racist"

> around when you're trying to make them choose a

> political side, neither of which actually helps

> the black community. You are the problem. Go back

> & read those quotes by black men & find those

> black women to understand why they will not side

> with you no matter how much you accuse people of

> racism.

>

> Be ashamed of yourselves that not a single one of

> you bothered to break the silence & confront the

> issue on systematic racism on a self-proclaimed

> anti-fascist, labour voting forum. Not a single

> one of you.

>

>

> DulwichBorn&Bred is mixed race. If she's willing

> to try, then WTF is your excuse? Sit your asses

> down & be schooled.

>

>

>

>

> {Quote removed because this wasn't aimed directly

> at JohnL}.

Great comment. Calling out the armchair activists who make their Instagram black and think they are a good person as a result.

[Blah Blah]

I'm sorry ED Bird, but I have to call you out a little on that post. You are making assumptions about people you have never met. You have know way of knowing what any of us has or has not done to combat and call out racism (in all its forms). Yes, debates can become polarised, usually due to the intolerance of strongly opposing sides to listen to each other, and really listen. The way to cut through that is to not react to it. In my experience, most people with strong views can be talked down to a sensible tone with some patience.

And for the record, here is an example of something I once had to deal with. Two decades ago, I worked somewhere that employed around 40 people. They had just one black employee (their first ever). He was new, and on the usual 3 month entry probation. He was well liked by staff and clients alike. At the end of that probation, he was told by the manager he would not be kept because 'he didn't fit in'. That was the kind of bs that black people faced every day (and probably do still in many places). Happily though, all the staff got together and the clients came on board too and forced the manager to reverse that decision. 20 years later and that kid is now the manager and that place is better for it. THAT is what can happen when white people challenge the racism of other white people. So you see, some of us have always had our eyes open to it and more than that, have stepped up to do something about it, in our own small way.

[pk]

ED Bird Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You know what isn't a good look {no, of course you

> don't} white people with their white privilege

> showing their complete disregard for the injustice

> black people face to this day. Between you posting

> a thread with more concern for some white

> journalist working for the BBC, PK dragging down a

> serious topic just to feel that white power

> coursing through his veins right now, & Malumbu

> stealing the spotlight with his white fragility,

> like a group of white people sitting around

> singing kumbaya is the solution. It didn't work

> then & it isn't working now. But every single one

> of you just loves to throw the word "racist"

> around when you're trying to make them choose a

> political side, neither of which actually helps

> the black community. You are the problem. Go back

> & read those quotes by black men & find those

> black women to understand why they will not side

> with you no matter how much you accuse people of

> racism.

>

> Be ashamed of yourselves that not a single one of

> you bothered to break the silence & confront the

> issue on systematic racism on a self-proclaimed

> anti-fascist, labour voting forum. Not a single

> one of you.

>

>

> DulwichBorn&Bred is mixed race. If she's willing

> to try, then WTF is your excuse? Sit your asses

> down & be schooled.

>

>

>

>

> {Quote removed because this wasn't aimed directly

> at JohnL}.

I?m surprised that you rant like this under the same name as you seem to be promoting a business, maybe your customers like it

But please school me on the white power credentials you see in my posts

[keano77]

?...school me...?

Interesting Americanism. Never came across that before. Thanks pk, you live and learn

[uncleglen]

Chick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Amazon synopsis of Owen Jones' 'Chavs: the

> > Demonisation of the Working Class'

> >

> > I have a 'Chav' (i.e. Essex,) accent, and since

> a

> > black 14 year old asked me in school if I was

> > 'Common' (to which I replied- 'no, there is

> only

> > one of me') I realised that divisiveness is

> > rampant everywhere....Liberals have also tried

> to

> > be 'friends' with the white working classes-

> but

> > only succeeded in doing them down- the only

> > 'friend' the working classes had was Mrs

> Thatcher

> > who let them buy their own homes.

> > Tony Crossland (Charterhouse educated btw) of

> > Labour made sure that the working classes did

> not

> > 'get educated' by getting rid of grammar

> > schools...

>

>

> Tossa

Is that all you've got- wanka

[Rumbero]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tony Crossland (Charterhouse educated btw) of

> Labour made sure that the working classes did not

> 'get educated' by getting rid of grammar

> schools...

Tony Crosland was educated at Highgate (a minor public school certainly) and Trinity College, Oxford. Not Charterhouse for the record.

[TheCat]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But you are still being nuanced. Social pressure

> exists in many forms. Some people cave in to it,

> others don't. So that is very much an individual

> matter, linked often to issues around self esteem.

> As for social media, most people just don't see

> the point in wasting time arguing with armchair

> bullies. There are better ways to spend ones time

> and campaign for change.

>

> It would help I think if you gave an actual

> example of 'uber progressive' language, and how

> that leaves someone feeling they can not air their

> view. Otherwise all of this is a bit vague to be

> honest. The discussion needs detail and examples.

Some examples....

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/06/thou-shalt-not-criticise-black-lives-matter/

[malumbu]

Some of the posts remind me of a sketch in Alas Smith and Jones (BBC comedy from the last millennium for younger readers). Sadly not on Youtube. The camera is on excited scientists at Jodrell Bank on the verge of discovery of terrestrial life in another universe. The white noise from the radio telescope becomes clearer until they can hear a series of profanities "wonka, tossa" and the like

[Blah Blah]

lol Malumbu.

Looking at the transcript of the radio exchange with the caller Cat, I doubt the presenter will be admonished in the end. Seems to me as though the caller did not have the patience to validly challenge the presenter on his lack of understanding of white privilege.

On the other example, without seeing the twitter exchanges that got him fired, it is hard to know what happened there.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

https://www.facebook.com/814966608530843/posts/3532354170125393/?vh=e

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Hi all

From my son?s piano tutor.

Could you please take a moment to sign and share my petition: http://chng.it/F6cdC7BV. I'm really conscious of the overwhelming number of white (male) composers on the ABRSM syllabus. The Musicians' Union have agreed to help with this campaign, and lots of other researchers in this area have contacted me over the last 24 hours, so fingers crossed something might actually come of it.

In the meantime, if anyone's interested in learning more about black composers, here are some resources:

BBC Radio 3: History of Black Classical Music - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000j2bt

BBC Sounds: Celebrating Black Music - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jnml

Alternative Classical: 10 Contemporary Black Composers - https://www.alternativeclassical.co.uk/features/living-black-composers

Classic FM: 9 Black Composers Who Changed the Course of Classical Music History - https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/black-composers-who-made-classical-music-history/

Chineke! Foundation - https://www.chineke.org/

AfriClassical - https://chevalierdesaintgeorges.homestead.com/History.html

Thanks 🎹

Grace

[Blah Blah]

Lack of representative diversity is an issue in many sectors, often related to class boundaries to be fair. Middle class children tend to have better access to instruments and school orchestras.

[uncleglen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lack of representative diversity is an issue in

> many sectors, often related to class boundaries to

> be fair. Middle class children tend to have better

> access to instruments and school orchestras.

State schools have been providing instruments and lessons in schools for decades.

[sjsl]

The Black Curriculum is campaigning for better diversity across the curriculum, and has useful template letters to send to your MP etc https://www.theblackcurriculum.com/action