East Dulwich parking survey just hit.

[peckhamboy]

And to confirm someone else's suspicions on this thread, it appears that the survey will only survey people in SE22, ignoring the fact that any CPZ on the Melbourne Grove side of Grove Vale will simply push the problem onto the SE15 side, where there a huge number of streets significantly closer to the station than about 90% of the ones mentioned above. Doesn't affect me much since my car doesn't generally move during the week, but I'd like to know the logic for ignoring half the people living within 1/2 mile of ED station.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Now don't distract the nice councillor, his attention is needed on the Livesey Museum thread.

[karter]

But Peckhamboy is right, and if we had a tube station that would make the area a whole lot busier then fair enough CPZ may be needed , but we don't. CPZ around the TRAIN station would just push the *supposed problem* further up and down the road.

[KalamityKel]

On a further point, after taking a rare walking around ED this arvo, I've noticed an old public notice for the proposed restriction of parking in the same areas already mentioned - was this just the beginning or was it rejected? what was the outcome?

[Wino]

I took a detour from an afternoon stroll up Dog Kennel Hill last Wednesday and walked down the length of Derwent Grove. This was around 2.15pm and I counted 3 empty car parking spaces. There was actual space for 5-6 cars if people had parked more considerately. Now this was obviously a COMPLETLEY RANDOM, UNSCIENTIFIC study, but I was surprised at the number of spaces available for the time of day. One further observation from my perambulation is that there is a block of flats at the East Dulwich Grove end of Derwent. Even if only half of the occupants are car owners, they will still significantly contribute (as is their right) to the take up of parking spaces in the area. Perhaps the problem is not as "commuter based" as we might assume?

Finally, I would just say that where one lives gives advantages and disadvantages. People who own or let in the streets around a mainline station benefit from higher value and higher rent for their properties. This is often the selling/renting point in estate agent literature. Many consider the convenience of having a two-minute walk to the station very advantageous. The downside is that you may get commuter impact as others seek the advantage. I live further from the station but closer to the loved/loathed Northcross/Lordship Lane market and shops. I enjoy the fact that, if I choose to, I can buy pretty much all of my weekly essentials without having to encounter the "glories" of public transport. My disadvantage is that lots of people wish to drive to experience the ""delights" of East Dulwich. Some of the people who provide the "delights" also wish/need to drive to their work. This means that parking for me is sometimes inconvenient but not unacceptably so. That is my trade off for my location. I am happy with it and it does not need (in my view ineffectual) tampering.

[kford]

Correctamundo, Wino.

[karter]

So take note councillors what the majority of people on this thread are saying about CPZ, looks like they are saying "no thanks"

[Ko]

James

Please can you give us the full list of roads which will be surveyed? I live on Landells (at the Silvester end) and I am a 5 minute walk to Northcross Rd and a 5 minute walk to Lordship Lane (to the police station / William Rose butchers).

I am very concerned that any CPZ on the roads immediately off LL will just push any problem to the next road along. So will roads like mine get surveyed because we ae only 5 minutes from the main shops?

I think the council needs to look at the bigger pictures - efor exmaple, flats being built all over the place without enough parking provision being provided by greedy developers.

[She'llsurvive]

nice to see that even in the libdem-voting fashionable inner cities the massive majority are passionately against anything that might make it slightly more inconvenient to make needless short term car journeys. phew.

[Wino]

She'llsurvive Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> nice to see that even in the libdem-voting

> fashionable inner cities the massive majority are

> passionately against anything that might make it

> slightly more inconvenient to make needless short

> term car journeys. phew.

Do you mean that a CPZ would deter visitor driving or that it would discourage home usage?

With no CPZ, maybe residents would have seconds thoughts about their car journey for fear of losing "their" space?

[Bobby P]

Well I am on Melbourne Grove, Councillor, and can assure you that neither me nor my neighbours received your parking survey. Perhaps you could put it online, which would be cheaper and easier than distributing leaflets that don't get to their targets.

[karter]

Hi Bobby, as you live on Melbourne grove what would be your opnion on having CPZ on your road? thanks

[nicw]

I'm on Ashbourne and have an absolute nightmare with parking. I've have 2 toddlers and often have to park miles away from my house and I loathe the prospect of hauling them, myself and the shopping half way down the street after work/nursery. I would hate to see ED with fully restricted parking, being unrestricted has I believe contributed to the "essence" of ED.

However what drives me utterly nuts are the commuters who use the roads around the station to park for 12 hours at a stretch! They must be stopped! And I think that a solution to this lies in the system that's practiced in Herne Hill; where parking is restricted for 2 hours in the middle of the day. Surely this is a practical compromise?

[KalamityKel]

Nicw I assume u only have one car?

[karter]

Nic, would this mean you would have to buy a parking permit from southwark council?

[KalamityKel]

What really bugs me is people assuming they have a right to park down their own street, often a street with say 60 houses... do the maths here... you can NOT fit 60 cars down one road anyway! Yes it's annoying when you can't find a space to park and fights and certainly plenty of dirty glances are a regular unnecessary occurance but opting for a CPZ is just stupid... it wont ease the problem at all

[karter]

Ashbourne grove is a particularly tight and cluttered road though, always has been.

[KalamityKel]

as is Chesterfield and Melbourne :p oooo the accidents I've almost seen happen there!

[SeanMacGabhann]

she'llsurvive and KalamityKel are on the money here.

I do understand the arguments for and against a CPZ - for what its worth I would say it was a bad thing for ED but I've said many a time; people are arguing for the wrong thing if the debate comes down to "I need at least one car and it needs to be outside my dwelling. And I need to travel everywhere in it"

It's not a lefty/liberal/hippy argument to suggest that isn't going to be sustainable - as KK says - it's basic math....s

Now generally when that is pointed out a whole bunch of related, but not pertinent stuff comes out - shops will shut, businesses will suffer, I'll have to travel further for x etc etc - yet all of this will be as nothing compared to the problems faced by everyone if people don't start waking up to the problem right now.

Congestion charges etc are crude and arguably inneffective measures to calm traffic but at least they are trying. If only the journeys that were necessary (medical, heavy goods etc) were made most of the time we wouldn't really have a problem - but that's not how we lead our lives. Only way out of this is to collectively take responsibility and try and.... let go

[KalamityKel]

AND realise cars are not essential to everyday life :p Sorry I had to say it >:D

[SeanMacGabhann]

well it's easily said (and I have said it) but of course it just isn't true for many people

I'm facing a decision at the moment which, of the several negatives against it, is the fact that it will significantly increase the possibility of "needing" a car. Do I take the responsibility now and say "no" based upon that, and other factors or do I say "yes" and to hell with worrying about the car etc. I'm only one of billions etc but we all have to take some responsibility for the situations we find ourselves in surely?

[kford]

One of the problems with CPZ is that the permit-buying resident suddenly EXPECTS to get a space outside their home; witness the incident near gentile Wandsworth Common where someone was murdered over a parking space.

[Louisa]

You dont give someone something and then suddenly take it away from them. Technology is about progress, not about reverting to horse and cart. By telling people to be more sustainable when it will make little or no difference this far down the road in terms of climate change, you are just making people who own cars resentful and defensive. If you want to make real changes how about we test it for a month - I bet if you removed every car from the road, everyone recycled and planes were absent from the air, other than the severe economic downturn, little else would change. It's too late to effect positive change on our climate, what will be will be, dont blame the home car user for this.

Louisa.

[Otto]

As a resident near the station I generally ride a bike or walk everywhere, but, sometimes need the car. It is almost always difficult to park, and, with two small children, groceries, etc - it can be a serious nightmare.

As an alternative proposal, what if the residents of elsie rd, tell grove, melbourne, ashborne etc volunteer to let a commuter chain a bike to the fence in front of their house??? I'd be happy to sponsor someone who would normally drive to the station or for lane shopping to leave their bike locked in front of mine - without responsiblity for it of course...

I do realize this is a utopian suggestion but it could be done...but, otherwise, I do favor a zoned CPZ or some kind of herne hill style solution if it eased parking in this area of ED.

Otto

[Wino]

nicw Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm on Ashbourne and have an absolute nightmare

> with parking. I've have 2 toddlers and often have

> to park miles away from my house and I loathe the

> prospect of hauling them, myself and the shopping

> half way down the street after work/nursery. I

> would hate to see ED with fully restricted

> parking, being unrestricted has I believe

> contributed to the "essence" of ED.

> However what drives me utterly nuts are the

> commuters who use the roads around the station to

> park for 12 hours at a stretch! They must be

> stopped! And I think that a solution to this lies

> in the system that's practiced in Herne Hill;

> where parking is restricted for 2 hours in the

> middle of the day. Surely this is a practical

> compromise?

Not having a pop at you in particular nicw, but when you say that you "have to park miles away from my house" and then mention "half way down the street" what do you actually mean? You can park in your street but not near your house, or you have to opt for a street or two away?

The suggestion of a limited period of residents parking only during the day to foil the alleged commuter problem (as has been discussed before), I am not against it in principal, just as long as the council do not try and charge residents for a pass.

In regard to SeanMacGabhann's view, he is of course correct that we need to wean ourselves away from petroleum-fired autos.