Jimmy Saville allegations

[maritap]

What's going on with this Jimmy Saville thing,why have they waited till the man is dead to open the can of worms

Hmmm I wonder what will be revealed

[Huguenot]

'They' waited until he was dead because then he can't defend himself.

[El Pibe]

These rumours have been around long before he popped his clogs.

According to Paul Gambucini the tabloids approached him a couple of times with the allegations and he always used his charity work as leverage to make them back off which they always did.

[Jessie]

yes, been an open secret amongst journalists for years

[steveo]

I wonder what stories Paul Gambaccini could tell (or have told about him)

[????]

Jim fixed it

[Marmora Man]

All seems somewhat illogical. The perpetrator, if that is what he was, is dead. He's beyond punishment, a police investigation cannot end with a prosecution.

The stories may be totally true, partially true or completely false but to me it's a non story.

[????]

What about the alleged victims rights to be heard?

Or the Extent of any obstruction by say the BBC or others?

Very much a story

[*Bob*]

He was pretty-much BBC royalty.

Add to this that the 70's were a great decade for turning a blind eye..

Can't say I doubt the majority of the allegations for a minute.

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree that there are issues here regarding those that may have covered/ protected not just him, but the likes of Gary Glitter and other convicted high profile peadophiles. And if the BBC itself played a part in that then the victims amy well have a compensation claim.

[uncleglen]

According to the beeb complaints were made to police in 2 counties in 2004 and another time- didn't quite catch all of the report.

[The Minkey]

If there were victims of his behaviour, then it may help them to have their story come out. The stories don't surprise me unfortunately, I heard something unpleasant about him back in the early eighties. A lad I was friendly for a time told me of an inappropriate incident that had happened while he was still at school which involved Jimmy Saville and a girl who was under the age of consent. It's so long ago, I can't remember the details but it was certainly being talked about back then.

[bonniebird]

I never liked him he always made my skin crawl, I think maybe the women need some sort of closure, from whats been said for example on vanessa's radio show, he was a powerful, influentual man, maybe they were frightened and the thought of know one believing them etc. I know you can't judge a book by its cover, but I really wanna say, why are we surprised ;)

[Jessie]

Apparently more revelations on there way

[Burbage]

bonniebird Wrote:

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> he was a powerful, influentual man,

> maybe they were frightened and the thought of know

> one believing them etc.

That's something to do with it, but not everything. There have been plenty of cases of abuse where the perpetrator wasn't particularly powerful, though obviously more powerful than the victim, who rarely has any supporters at all.

Abusers tend to make their victims complicit in their abuse, so it's the victims that feel the shame and guilt. And that's why they won't feel comfortable facing their abusers again, whether in the street or the courtroom. The abusers, on the other hand, seem able to convince themselves they've done nothing more wrong than shared a secret - a secret they end up holding over their victim. That's what makes abuse toxic, and that's one of the reasons why victims don't feel comfortable while their abuser is alive.

It's not just that nobody believes the victims. Even if you do find the courage to make an allegation, you won't have any witnesses or corroborative evidence. You probably won't even have a coherent statement to make. As victims of any sort of crime will know, it's easy to forget times and dates and conversations after a traumatic event and, oddly enough, people can find that vagueness unconvincing. Especially if there are jobs and possible lawsuits to consider.

And even you are believed, it's unlikely to lead to justice. Courts want evidence, and so do employers. And even where justice is possible, then what? Will it make intimacy suddenly comfortable, or talk of childhood less threatening? Will it bring back the careers abandoned, without apparent reason, before they started? The accounts of the victims who have spoken are full of attempts to forget, to put the abuse behind them and build a life, often without the benefits of confidence, self-esteem or normal, easy relationships. The last thing they seem to want is to have their day in the papers.

Even long after the event, victims won't speak out. Unless, as we've seen in several high-profile cases, others speak out first. We probably can't imagine the motives. It may be the relief that, after decades, you're no longer alone. Or it may be the fear of your secret being discovered by others before you've made your case. They're no doubt powerful, but they're clearly not about getting justice.

If we can do anything useful, it's to take victims seriously and sympathetically and try learn what we can from them. Not that we're likely to be able to learn much. We now have CRB checks and child-protection policies and, beyond that, we can't entirely isolate children from adults, or stir up witchhunts on the basis of rumour. Education is important, too, but only to an extent. We could, perhaps, teach children about the different forms of abuse, how to collect evidence, how to make consistent statements and how to recruit reliable witnesses, but that would destroy the very innocence we're trying to protect.

Although many (myself included) are not surprised by the Savile allegations, it would be wrong to conclude anything from that. Children seem to enjoy the company of eccentrics, so they naturally arouse our suspicion yet most of them are (as far as we know) harmless. What we should bear in mind is that abusers, like murderers, look mostly like ourselves.

[Huguenot]

To be fair, I don't think courts or employers are the only ones who 'like' evidence.

If we ever reach a point where justice could be exacted for crimes for which there was no evidence, it's pretty safe to say that none of us would want to be a part of it.

Burbage molested me yesterday, 7 years in jail please...

[womanofdulwich]

Back in the 70's and 80's powerful men got away with things they would not do now. I think it happened in lots of industries/ sectors. These men generally had a reputation and if there was more than one woman there - and she was kind/ a feminist she would warn you- for example never to go in a room when "its just you and x" it will be your word against him etc etc. It would not be tolerated so much now, but it still happens.

[dbboy]

Would not be surprised if they take his OBE away.

[Loz]

OBE? Knighthood, you mean.

Apparently there is no precedence for stripping knighthoods from the deceased. Also, it would need a full, formal investigation. After all, he's not actually been found guilty of anything yet.

[????]

Why on earth are these allegations only coming out now then, now then, now then

[Brendan]

The cynic in me thinks because he probably had some dirt on someone that he can't dish now that he is dirt so to speak.

[Moos]

???? Wrote:

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> Why on earth are these allegations only coming out

> now then, now then, now then

Hee hee

[James Barber]

It seems extremely likely the allegations are true - so many seperate examples coming out and the Police have made it clear they think the evidence is extremely compelling.

So it happened almost openly in the BBC. Many from then have said it was an open secret. So if the culture allowed it to happen with one star it is very likely other stars and people with influence have done similar. Others have now made allegations about ITV, etc.

So my hope is that the victims get some sort of closure finally. to have that over their lives is appalling. That other instances involving other perpetrators are found and prosecuted. Rape of children and other abusive acts need to be exposed and criminals prosecuted wherever possible.

[DJKillaQueen]

Agreed James.

[NomDePlume]

I see the family of Jimmy Saville have have removed the gravestone and flowers surrounding it, leaving a small hole with no bush around it, Just how old Jimmy would have liked it.