Scotland - Independence Referundum

[JohnL]

The Irish don't like the term British Isles - an argument that goes

on every time the British and Irish Lions are referred to as

British Lions (as in British Isles).

Also realised yesterday Isle of Man and Jersey are not UK but crown

dependencies

maxxi Wrote:

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> I've always thought of us all (English, Irish,

> Scots, Welsh) as British Islanders. No matter what

> the flags or politics, we are all inhabitants of

> the British Isles and thinking of ourselves as

> Islanders goes some way to explaining what we have

> in common (with each other and, say, Iceland?)

> i.e. a suspicion of the mainland and them thar

> ways.

[El Pibe]

I'm not googling, so could be wrong, but I thought Ireland was part of the British Isles, hence why they initally objected to 'Great Britain' at the time of the union, because that implied just the greater island not the little island(s). But this could be from a fogged memory.

I guess they object now because GB has coopted use of the term british as an exclusive political entity despite the fact that it predates the romans as an inclusive one.

[Earl Aelfheah]

OK. It looks more likely that this could actually happen, so maybe we should start thinking about how we're going to divide things up.

Scotland - your welcome to keep haggis, bagpipes and man skirts, but can we do a deal on Billy Connolly? Also, if you show some flexibility on this, we'll consider taking the Crankies off your hands (which I think you'll agree is pretty generous) and shows good faith.

Despite the posturing, you can keep the pound. UKIP have ruined it for us anyway.

[JohnL]

I only hear this because of the rugby connotation (it's a regular argument on rugby boards)

Wiki does have a short mention that the Irish Government doesn't recognise the term (if you believe Wiki)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

I like the optional replacement term 'these islands' - dour :)

[El Pibe]

although i guess outside these islands, the use of the term 'those islands' is probably a bit too ambiguous to be useful.

[maxxi]

JohnL Wrote:

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> The Irish don't like the term British Isles - an

> argument that goes

> on every time the British and Irish Lions are

> referred to as

> British Lions (as in British Isles).

Yes hence the term British Islanders as being distinct from British - it's a geographical description not one of nationality - something as emotive as sport might find British Isles Lions too clumsy and too close to the implied Britishness of it all to work - but these are the kinds of questions that may have to be looked at.

Would an independent Scotland be part of the Lions? And if so would it now have to be The British and Irish and Scottish Lions? Get's even clumsier and British Isles Lions starts to look less so - kind of a 'West Indies' thing.

I like the term but I'm not suggesting it be pressed into service for anyone else let alone those disgruntled Irish who would feel slighted by it. If they feel strongly enough they could call the island group the Celtic Isles if they like - it might catch on; after all the French call the English Channel La Manche, the Dutch The Channel and the Germans The Sleeve Channel so they could choose their own name (is there not already a Celtic/Gaelic name? Maybe - as JohnL suggests - the Gaelic for These Islands?) - or maybe run a Blue-Peter style competition to find one.

Suggestions?

Malvinas has a ring to it.

The Scots could also choose a new name if they go - which leads me to wonder what we would then call the 'big' island if not 'Mainland Britain'?

[maxxi]

Apparently Former UK and/or Future UK (both serious suggestions for a Scots-less country) have been ruled out due to unfortunate abbreviation problems.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Can we have a referendum about whether or not to keep the Welsh?

[david_carnell]

Former Union Celtic Kingdoms Or Failed Fiefdoms

[El Pibe]

can i add use of 'celt' to the list of irrational hatred.

[david_carnell]

Agreed - but you try and come up with a better acronym!

[El Pibe]

Durgh, divvy of the day, sorry

[JohnL]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Can we have a referendum about whether or not to

> keep the Welsh?

Get into an argument with the Welsh and it'll go on and on and on - but nothing will ever happen.

Still arguing about Vortigern and the Saxons

(Don't believe the new peace deal in Welsh Rugby either - it's a short break)

[maxxi]

JohnL Wrote:

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> (Don't believe the new peace deal in Welsh Rugby

> either - it's a short break)

While they take a leek?

[numbers]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> But nearly 30 years in this country and I don't

> feel British/English in the slightest. Not sure

> I'm that Irish either tbh

I know I will never feel 'English' despite having lived here for longer than any other country but I've always felt British. Not sure I'm that Scottish anymore though, I feel like an orphan at times. Neither here, nor there.

[Louisa]

If I lived anywhere else in the UK I'd be having a referendum about whether to keep London within the union. I'm pretty sure the rest of the island would prosper far better out of London's shadow, and London as a city state would be more than capable of taking care of itself.

If London is expelled by the rest of the country, which other British city would best be placed as the new capital of the remainder of the union (let's suppose Scotland votes 'No' in two weeks time.

Louisa.

[El Pibe]

norwich

[Siduhe]

Also realised yesterday Isle of Man and Jersey are not UK but crown dependencies

This is a great diagram/image for that sort of thing - http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-united-kingdom-venn-diagram.html

It helps if you listen to the accompanying short video as some of the concepts are legal, some geographical etc. It also needs a bit of updating (Croatia is in the EU now for example) but still really useful.

[Otta]

Probably Manchester or Leeds. Or York of we're feelingr historic.

[El Pibe]

york has an inrcedibly old and vague claim, nowhere else even comes close......... colchester ?

Birmingham surely though. well placed, easily the biggest...

[Otta]

Yeah but if we're including Scotland it needs to be further north than brum I reckon.

[david_carnell]

Ludlow and Winchester have both been historic capitals.

[El Pibe]

Otta Wrote:

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> Yeah but if we're including Scotland it needs to

> be further north than brum I reckon.

cos london's perfectly placed ;)

anyway, i erckon there's 8 or 9 countries to be had out of this!!

[david_carnell]

Orkney

Shetland

Rest of Scotland

London

Cornwall

Rest of England

North Wales

South Wales

Northern Ireland

Any others that fancy a shout at this independence malarky?

[El Pibe]

northumbria, wessex, essex, sussex, middlesex, no sex?