South London Protest Cafe - Do justice/ Eat cake

[the-e-dealer]

Sounds like a Political Party to me

[RosieH]

Lulastic, I think it's a great idea. You will, inevitably, be met with cynicism and unwarranted snide remarks on here, but go for it.

There are so many things to protest these days (always have been, but more than ever with a coalition hell-bent on widening the gap between rich and poor). Getting together seems a good way to focus energies and learn from each other.

I was going to send you a little ditty of support in the shape of The Housemartins' Get Up Off Our Knees, but it seems to have been wiped from the face of the internet. Doubtless part of a Cameron / Youtube conspiracy to keep us on our knees! So here's Flag Day instead:

[Chippy Minton]

Here you go RosieH, complete with protest pics! Top choon!

The next big protest in London is next Saturday - http://afuturethatworks.org/

Good luck Lulastic

 

[Lulastic]

Dear Rosie H and Chippy Minton

Thank you. You have restored my faith in humanity,

Yours,

Lulastic

PS- Mammary Man, I think you have just gotten caught up with something as superficial as the name of the thing. Clearly in the further description it IS about engagement, discussion, participation, understanding and action. (Though hopefully not fundraising *YAWN* although could be) I hope you come along and find us a better name.

[RosieH]

Thanks Chippy - I actually avoided that one because of some of the more extreme pictures - thought it might incense a certain element on here. But what the heck...

[Ukjoncollins]

Despite my cynicism for the project, its definitely worth checking out the film they're showing.

[Huguenot]

What about people who protest against racial integration, will they be welcome too? Will you share your learning, experience and enthusiasm with them?

What about those that protest against homosexuality, will you be offering support and resources?

What about those who protest against climate science, saying it's all a conspiracy?

What about those who protest against healthy school meals and push burgers through the fences?

What about those who protest against the nanny state and want to roll back regulation and workers rights?

Are they all welcome?

If they're not all welcome, then you need to seriously consider your approach, as you're not really a 'protest' group at all, but in fact a special interest group with a secret agenda that's entering into the same deception and misrepresentation you will probably claim to detest.

[Worker]

Patronising to boot, where do I sign up?

Lulastic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dear Rosie H and Chippy Minton

> Thank you. You have restored my faith in

> humanity,

> Yours,

> Lulastic

>

> PS- Mammary Man, I think you have just gotten

> caught up with something as superficial as the

> name of the thing. Clearly in the further

> description it IS about engagement, discussion,

> participation, understanding and action. (Though

> hopefully not fundraising *YAWN* although could

> be) I hope you come along and find us a better

> name.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Do you really want to join a group with a leader that descends to puerile name-calling?

[Voyageur]

It all sounds a bit sixth form but pretty harmless. If it floats their collective boats then crack on!

[Huguenot]

I'd be interested to hear what the 'action' is that this group is dedicated to?

Does it respect the democratic process or the rule of law?

Where do the limits lie? Are you willing to target those that disagree with you outside their homes? Are you willing to humiliate their families and ransom their nieghbours' peace of mind?

What about campaigns of harassment in the early hours? Are those on the cards? Or are you just letter-writers?

Are you willing to make your group, with it's undisclosed agenda, the 'acceptable' public arm to a more sinister fifth column with different rules of engagement?

Perhaps all this should be made clear before people start volunteering to align themselves with your 'party'?

[Lulastic]

Argh. Obviously I am getting the tone of this forum completely wrong. I used to be on here a lot, a couple of years ago, but things seem to have changed a bit... or maybe I am being a bit sensitive/ communicating rubbishly.

@peckhamgatecrasher I was jesting, in the same way this whole thread has had a jesting theme. (Well, a mocking me theme really *sobs*) I was also trying to be a bit clever, getting the poster's name wrong and then talking about the problem with the name. And also, don't worry, I am not a leader, just someone telling people about it - next time I'll make sure someone else does this bit!

@Hugeonot On that point- there IS a problem with the name, that is evident. We'll change it once we can have a good old conversation about it. And in terms of the agenda- we are NO-ONE and EVERYONE- Oxfam is a bit involved, a local arts collective a bit involved, the Cafe a bit involved. We want others to collaborate and decided the (social justice) agenda - which is why I originally posted.

And to the other haterzzz, lots and lots and LOTS of people have been in touch about this- clearly it IS something that people want to be involved in, people DO have the same lack of time and capacity but want to discuss and act on social justice issues together.

If only we were all a bit more sixth form, with our frontal lobes in tact, we might actually put up less with a world where the government dismantles our NHS in front of our eyes and the World Bank furthers policies that put more people in poverty.

*patronising rant over*

So, wooo! See you all on Wednesday :D :D :D

*crawls under desk for a world-weary sleep*

[Jessie]

If there was something more family-orientated, I'd def want to get involved. Good to see people getting together about all these issues. Sorry to see/read you're having a hard time on here, Lulastic - it's not a reflection of the real world.

[Huguenot]

I'm not a hater Lulastic, what I'm trying to highlight is that you are calling for membership of an organisation with a commitment to undisclosed action from an unwritten agenda.

Your views on the NHS show that there is clearly an 'intent' behind your leadership, and your views on the World Bank (an institution dedicated to poverty reduction) shows that you are poorly informed and prone to knee jerk reactions.

I would simply prefer that your potential members bear that in mind before they sign up to your organisation out of the misguided view that you support duvets for bunny rabbits rather than anarcho-syndicalism.

[Lulastic]

Ah yeah, everyone, sorry, oops, forgot to mention the "membership" bit - so if you come along on Wednesday you have to sign your name in blood, on a covenant whereby you make me the President of this Organisation and also the Universe, and sign up to my misinformed views and then also give me a million pounds in fees to further them.

OR, alternatively, you could just come along, watch an amazing film, discuss whether the World Bank is a hero or a villain, share some of the local solutions you know for our food system, and then keep your eyes peeled for the next cafe, decide if you want to come along again or not. And not sign anywhere, and not belong to anything, but just occasionally do something like this together with other people in the neighbourhood.

*already regretting this jest but just can't help it*

[Huguenot]

So you're seriously asking people to come along and watch a bit of anarchist propaganda on the World Bank, an organisation that few of the attendees know anything about, and then have a discussion on whether it's right or wrong?

I had you wrong Lulastic, I thought you were well meaning but disorganised, now I'm thinking you're a charlatan.

As I've said, I'm not a Haterzzz (whatever that is), but if you want a 'free' discussion about the World Bank then you'll be putting both sides of the equation.

Since this event is called the Protest Cafe, you've clearly aleady decided that the output should be protest - hardly evidence of an open mind?

[Ted Max]

Nurse, he's out of bed again.

[Worker]

What issues?

Jessie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If there was something more family-orientated, I'd

> def want to get involved. Good to see people

> getting together about all these issues. Sorry to

> see/read you're having a hard time on here,

> Lulastic - it's not a reflection of the real

> world.

[Marmora Man]

Lulastic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> PS- Mammary Man, I think you have just gotten caught up with something as superficial as the name of the thing. Clearly in the further description it IS about engagement, discussion, participation, understanding and action. (Though hopefully not fundraising *YAWN* although could be) I hope you come along and find us a better name.

Despite the reference to my non exostent man boobs I may call in. I am working in the South West at present but should be passing Camberwell on the way home on Weds evening.

[LondonMix]

I genuinely don?t understand how this is supposed to achieve anything. What could be interesting is if you organize a talk or something every session about a specific ?social justice issue? and invite someone who is dedicated a specific cause to come and speak and provide information and let people know how they can get involved. As a forum for experts to educate people about their causes (with ideally someone with a counter balancing perspective invited to speak as well) it could be interesting and allow people who are busy to stay relatively well informed about a variety of issues and learn about how to get involved if they choose to. If only people who are too busy to get properly involve in any particular issue attend the caf? (as you suggested) it will just be a bunch of uninformed people sitting around having a moan about something they don?t fully understand with no organizational network behind them. That just sounds like a tremendous waste of time and why some people might have suggested it was all a bit 6th form.

[Saffron]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If only people who are too busy to get

> properly involve in any particular issue attend

> the caf? (as you suggested) it will just be a

> bunch of uninformed people sitting around having a

> moan about something they don?t fully understand

> with no organizational network behind them.

Basically, like the ED Forum but with cake... Mmmmm cake.

;-)

[Lulastic]

@Marmora Man Hoping you might have smiled a tiny, little bit. It would be really good if you dropped in

@LondonMix Yep, I really appreciate what you are saying. Wouldn't it be brilliant to have an expert in? That would be our aim for every other one perhaps. I do think films are a really important starting point too though, because people's real-life stories are just as critical. However, I don't agree - and it's been mentioned already- that people are uninformed and just talk opinionated nonsense that is unhelpful. I think *that* is the patronising view.

We are aiming to link into the framework of existing campaigns/ organisations too - on Wednesday I'll be bringing up Oxfam's food campaign, but really hope other people will bring other options for action too.

As you can see, we have thought it through only so far, we are having our first one in order to get the wheels turning and are inviting other wise souls to be a part of the forming stage too.

[Jessie]

@Worker - issues 'of a social justice nature, either local issues of global issues'. Anything else i can help with?

[LondonMix]

It's not patronising to assume people who don't have time to get properly involved / deeply involved (as you suggested) in any specific issue will not be informed enough to discuss it intelligently. As anyone who has ever gotten deeply involved in anything knows, issues are often difficult and complex with lots of grey areas and require more than general interest to be properly understood.

For example, people are often rightly concerned about the carbon footprint of the food they eat and therefore decide to buy "local" as a means to reduce this. However, the issue is vastly more complex. In certain parts of the world certain livestock and produce require less energy to cultivate due to the properties of the area (sunshine, soil quality etc). Also, in certain poorer countries, where labour costs are lower, human beings vs. carbon-fueled machines are responsible for more of the cultivation process, again lowering the carbon footprint. Both of these things can influence the final price of imported foodstuffs and might in part be why certain imported produce is cheaper than locally produced products. The transportation of food is only one element that determines its true carbon footprint and your lamb from a British farmer might actually entail the use of more carbon-energy than lamb cultivated and then shipped from New Zealand when the entire production process is taken into account.

Edited for typos!

[Lulastic]

Hi Londonmix- an EXCELLENT example.

Although often when I have been in a group discussion I have found that the pooled knowledge and consequential discussion has been brilliant and intelligent and even nuanced and complex AND sometimes even more liberated and empowering that when having a Q and A with an expert. (Though don't get me wrong, I love an expert and would love to have Q and A's)

Of course, sometimes you just end up having a fierce, subjective debate, with poor humour involved, but them's the apples I guess and we'll try and avoid it when possible.