Dubstep

[Jah Lush]

Dubstep is so pass? innit blood.

[*Bob*]

It's not so much the speed of it, or the sound of it, or whether it's good or bad (a pointless argument, as mentioned already). I find the sound interesting, from a technical point of view. It's like a giant demo-song of all the very latest virtual synths.

I'm just not convinced people (not all, but a lot) actually enjoy it as much as they claim to enjoy it, or want to enjoy it.

Recent festival excursion: pass tent playing dubstep which is well attended, but filled with people looking serious, shuffling from one foot to the other in mild confusion, lots of talking amongst themselves. Walk on.

Personally I think it has more in common with prog rock than most other EDM types.

[TillieTrotter]

Tell that to my teenage kids Jah, they think they're so now!!

[david_carnell]

anapau Wrote:

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> This is dubstep

>

>

>

> but so it this

>

>

>

> personally I like the former but detest the

> latter

>

> What sets it apart from other EDM genres just

> comes down to tempo really

>

> oh and often heavy sub-bass (the 'drop') although

> this isn't too noticeable unless you are in

> possession of unusually good speakers

Well, I can say I learnt something today....

Much like you, I quite liked the former, dark, interesting and slightly unnerving.

The latter sounds like someone have an epileptic fit on a Korg. Dear god. And you're meant to be able to dance to that? There is, literally, no rhythm. Mentalness. As *Bob* says, the world has gone mad. And I feel old.

Reading the Guardian I, of course, am listening to "djent". A genre mixing rap and metal. Listen up punks:

[anapau]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> It's not so much the speed of it, or the sound of

> it, or whether it's good or bad

If it's not about any of these...erm what's left to talk about?

(a pointless

> argument, as mentioned already)

I find the sound

> interesting, from a technical point of view. It's

> like a giant demo-song of all the very latest

> virtual synths.

So it is about the sound then?

> I'm just not convinced people (not all, but a lot)

> actually enjoy it as much as they claim to enjoy

> it, or want to enjoy it.

Why do you think that people would claim to enjoy it without actually enjoying it? What's not to enjoy?

Also, just because people look serious when they listen to it, doesn't mean they don't enjoy it! It's not really a 'sing along' genre is it. And it's intense/dark (the stuff I listen to anyway, J:kenzo, Youngsta, Icicle, J Sparrow, Distance) not the kind of stuff that puts a smile on your face. Doesn't mean you're not appreciating it.

> Personally I think it has more in common with prog

> rock than most other EDM types.

It depends what kind of dubstep you listen to, as exemplified in the examples I gave in my previous post. And if you look in to the origins of the genre, listen to early works of Magnetic Man, Skream/Benga, Hatcha (all involved with the Croydon Big Apple scene in the early-mid 00s) you can hear that the genre actually owed a lot to UK garage, grime, even dancehall and reggae.

True that a more recent mutation of the genre has been the more overt, mid-range, 'in your face' tracks by artists (I use that term loosely) such as Skrillex, Nero, Excision who clearly take a lot of inspiration from death metal/prog rock.

[????]

Cliff Richard anyone?

[*Bob*]

I don't think the notion of claiming to enjoy a particular band or type of music more than you really do is alien to anyone who's ever been a teenager, if they're honest! We've all made mistakes..

When I said 'prog rock', I wasn't being very clear. I wasn't talking about musical influence in any way - I meant in the types of listeners it attracts - and the reasons they have for listening to it. I think there's (cover your ears, Jeremy and DC!) a muso element to dubstep in the same way there was with prog. It was interesting (to me, anyway) that the festival dubstep audience was much more male-oriented than anywhere else. And for such high-octane sounds pumping out of the system, perversely, the actual energy of the crowd seemed really low.

Do you think Skrillex et al will still feature on the holographic ipods of those 40-year-olds-of-the-future?

[*Bob*]

anapau.. listening to some of stuff from the names you mentioned (of the non-recent-mutation-type) there's a lot to like there, but a lot of it I wouldn't have recognised as what I thought was dubstep, apart from occasional tracks with the half-time beat element.

I guess the mutators have a lot to answer for.

[anapau]

*Bob* - what do you mean when you say there's a "muso" element to dubstep?

Yes it's a pity that what people think of as dubstep and the sounds it actually encompasses are two very different things. When I say I like dubstep people give me a look and say 'I hate Skrillex,' and it's like, yeah, so do I...

I mean I like THIS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc_YP_H3ZEc

[Otta]

anapau, can I ask where you would listen to that ?

Whilst you're washing up, whilst driving, whilst clubbing?

[anapau]

Well I am listening to it now in my college library...I have heard it in clubs but nowhere near as much as I listen to it on my own. I distinctly remember listening to it for the first time on my ipod...I happened to be in the music faculty library.

Why do you ask, and why does it matter? (I don't mean that in a defensive/confrontational way, I'm just intrigued by the question)

[Otta]

Because I genuinely wondered. It's not my bag at all (each to their own and all that), and I just can't imagine listening to that whilst relaxing, but equally couldn't imagine dancing to it.

I'm a rock / metal boy at heart, and there are tunes I'd listen to at home, and other tunes that I'd go mad for at a gig or club, but wouldn't put on at home.

[*Bob*]

Re 'muso'.. Well, back to the prog rock thing, I suppose. Not to say all prog rock is crap.. But at the shittier end of the prog rock stick, I suppose we're talking extreme, overly-complex, elaborate and attention-seeking songwriting and performance just for the sake of it, rather than for the sake of the music itself. In turn this attracts an audience who are more into the idea of it rather than the music itself.

Hence dubstep (though I think I can say now we are talking about the shittier end of the dubstep stick) seems to be extreme, overly-complex, elaborate and attention-seeking production - for the sake of it, which attracts people people for the very same.

Musos (musoes?!) are often attracted towards the extreme, so they can wear it like a badge of honour. In the case of prog, extremely boring. In the case of DS, extreme on the ear.

[????]

My brother in law is in a metal prog group, my two worst nightmares in music terms. I don,t get it at all because he has some great taste in other music is really dedicated to his band and is a talented musician, this makes no sense to me artistically or commercially!

Back to dub step, in an attempt to get down with the kids (and bob) I don't mind some of this...

[anapau]

@Otta- fair enough. My manic raver friends would show you what dubstep dancing is (more 'skanking' or moshing really). I'd say the minimal stuff is good for brooding/chilling but that's just me.

@*Bob* I'm not sure if I agree with you on the link between the 'overly complex' and the idea of cereberal 'musos' tackling a genre that they don't actually like, precisely because of its 'impenetrable' qualities. I don't think such an audience actually exists, or if it does, that it exists more prominently for Dubstep than it does for any other 'underground' EDM genre. Especially not for the kind of shitty dubstep that we are talking about. I think the kind of young people attracted to Skrillex and co (of whom I know a fair few) genuinely love the extreme-ness of it, rather than wearing it as a badge of honour as you suggested.

[titch juicy]

Thanks for the tips in the earlier post anapau- I've not listened to much dubstep since the skream/benga days (not for any particular reason), so have got a decent selection on spotify now. Really looking forward to see how the genre's moved on. Loved the Burial EP earlier this year; however.

[anapau]

Ah thanks titch! Oh yeah kindered, Burial is sublime! If you like that I'd suggest checking out XXYYXX, Phaeleh, Four tet, arkist on soundcloud for more of that kind of mellow bass.

[*Bob*]

So has the 'inyerface halftime beat' essentially become the unwitting face of dubstep, or is it an essential item?

I suppose I only think 'dubstep' when I hear THAT beat.

Without that element, there doesn't seem to be anything to define the rest of it as anything in particular, other than a very varied collection of stuff, drawn from a load of different EM influences. Some of it is great, some of it not for me.

But as soon as I hear THAT beat.. I think it's that bit which does my 'ead in.

[titch juicy]

from the stuff you mentioned i really like Icicle and j:kenzo, not at all keen on youngsta (is that really considered dubstep? sounds remarkably like uk hip hop to me) and i found distance a little boring

[Jeremy]

anapau Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is dubstep

>

>

>

> but so it this

>

>

>

> personally I like the former but detest the

> latter

>

> What sets it apart from other EDM genres just

> comes down to tempo really

>

> oh and often heavy sub-bass (the 'drop') although

> this isn't too noticeable unless you are in

> possession of unusually good speakers

Finally listened to those. The Skrillex thing sounded like a 90s computer game, interspersed with extreme/mangled sections. The Ruffhouse thing was far too minimalist for me to enjoy, but at least I didn't find it annoying. As Bob was saying, I couldn't really detect anything in common apart from the half-time drums.

[anapau]

my bad, youngsta is more of a dj than a producer, minimal mix

[ObsessedwithOlives]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

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> Come to my house if you want to know about dub

> step. It's played and made from 7am til at least

> 11pm. My neighbours love it!!

Dubstep was not a good move when for a birthday bash which went on til 4am a year or so ago.

I got locked out my house when in midst of cleaning the next morning and had to borrow a ladder to climb over the garden fence. A neighbour was very reluctantly lend me one... if looks could kill :0/

[El Pibe]

I'm with Otta, this doesn't sound to my untrained ears particularly different from lots of 'new' home-grown sounds I've been hearing over the last 15 years or so.

But then dance music in general, after an initial orgy of creativity, seems to evolve at a glacial pace. It's the one genre where I could head down a club as an old geezer and find the kidz dancing to a musical fabric dominated by music glaringly reconisable from that I was dancing to in my formative years.

What's really shocked me is that muso seems to be some sort of pejorative term.

That's me told then :(

And I can completely see Bob's point re prog.

I'm actually quite partial to a bit of it, but you wouldn't catch me looking breoodingly profound whilst tapping my foot (not to anything as vanilla as rhythm goddamit though) to some of Zappa or Fripp's weirder moments that's for sure.

Listening to some of the above examples that's exactly what springs to mind though.

[northlondoner]

Rather off topic - but what do you call a woman with two twats?

NDubz.

I'll get my coat.

[Alan Medic]

Let me know when you get on to the Culchiestep. I'm an expert.