Southwark council considering 20mph limit across whole borough

[StraferJack]

You know you don't have to go to a supermarket for a weekly shop, right?

And even if you do, how does 20mph impact on the trip anyway

Sorry djkillaqueen but you seem a bit ott argumentative for no great reason on this one

Strip away all the city v city, age of posters, money etc etc arguments and we are no worse off.

[DJKillaQueen]

If I'm working say 70 hours a week (as many people do), I think I prefer to do all my shop in one go, or if I have a family to look after, I may prefer to do the bulk of my shop in one go. In my own case, I have cats. Have you tried getting 10kg of litter on a bicycle SJ? And sainsburrys is the only place I buy it because it's only ?1.28 a bag....as opposed to ?3-4 a bag anywhere closer.

I've stated my reasons for opposing a blanket 20mphr limit earlier in the thread. The latter part of the thread has moved on to ignoring cars altogether and promoting the bicycle as an alternative. I'm just engaging in a debate and trying to introduce balance - being someone who cycles and drives and uses public transport and being able to see the need for all of them.

Disagreement doesn't always equate to being argumentative SJ ;)

[Coops46]

DJKillaQueen, it's unfortunate you jump to conclusions as to what I think about other forms of transport.

I walk, cycle, take the bus, tube, drive. By designing properly and specifically for purpose, everyone can benefit from the improvements, especially drivers.

It seems you have a real problem hearing someone younger than yourself propose new ideas. Remember, ideas come from all levels, not just top transport execs. You're welcome to your opinion, but it's slightly boring to hear such a constant flow of negativity.

[StraferJack]

70 hours a week As many people do? Maybe so. Shall we define many?

As many as are on the roads for the shop? I doubt it

If you have time to drive to and schlep around a supermarket why not book a time slot to have it delivered?

[Green]

I work 75 hours a week but I'm broadly in favour the limit.

[albert spangler]

Well I'm not reading all that but I think that a 20mph across the Borough is fine. For starters, most people use public transport and with all those bus stops, traffic lights, etc, you'll rarely get above 20mph anyway.

In reality, it's not the speed limit that needs adjusting, but people's attitudes. City life means getting everywhere 3mins before you left. Just take it easy or leave earlier!

[DJKillaQueen]

Coops we'll just have to agree to disagree. I certainly don't have a problem with the view of any one of any age (I was young once too and still work with young people)...just views based on models in cities the person proposing them has never lived in. I think I've been eloquent in my counter arguments to those points, and would never be bored by anyone engaging in a debate that interests me, personally.

SJ, of course not every one using the car for a particular journey needs to, and to be fair I didn't say that. 'Some' people though do have to use cars and we are not being fair to them in this drive to drive (excuse the pun) people out of cars. Quite often I've walked to Sainsburrys and got the bus back (because one stops outside my home) which is cheaper than a home delivery. The one time I did take a home delivery for bulk cat stuff, they didn't deliver most of it as they didn't have the stock in...so I wasn't too impressed by that option (a one off I hope though).

"In reality, it's not the speed limit that needs adjusting, but people's attitudes. City life means getting everywhere 3mins before you left. Just take it easy or leave earlier!"

Albert, that's one of the most sensible things written on this thread so far :)

[DaveR]

"Studying something is not the same as seeing the real impact for yourself"

Agreed. One draws on a very large data set, the other a very small one, and one viewed through an entirely subjective lens. Not perhaps the best argument for saying 'listen to me'.

[the-e-dealer]

Yeah if I get cancer I would only accept surgery from a Surgeon who has had cancer not from some twat who studied it.

[DJKillaQueen]

Ah but no graduate would be allowed to operate without supervision from someone who HAD done it a thousand times over for themselves ;)

[the-e-dealer]

But someone who watched a thousand operations who had never studied surgery would not be allowed to operate.

[KirstyH]

Its perfectly reasonable for someone who isn't a practitioner to draw on an evidence base of what actually works. New things will have a smaller evidence base. In any case these aren't new ideas but examples have taken a long time to get to fruition. You can kill the messenger for studying or for using stats, but I think the real issue is what are our shared objectives? The collective vs the individual. If we do want lower noise, kids playing on streets (even being able to cycle to school) then something from status quo has to give around current car use, if its not 20mph then it'll be something else.

[uncleglen]

Now that the insurance premiums on young male and female drivers has been equilibrated does that mean we will have more boy racers on the roads?- unfortunately I think it does because their premiums were the only barrier to driving. The whole EU ruling makes acomplete mockery of actuarial science, and may be a catalyst to the wholesale adoption of 20mph limits in urban areas -thereby increasing pollution; and it will not stop the boy racer (or girl racer for that matter)

[Gimme]

Doesn't really matter what the sign says...everyone will ignore it anyway. See comment on driving while using mobile phone...strange to think that this is actually an offence given how common it is...

[Coops46]

Yes, most of Southwark is 20mph limit, still doesn't stop most speeding - example Southampton Way with a school - It's all a 20mph zone and no-one follows it. You create 20mph zones through design. Wide, open streets encourage speed.

As I said before, it's about permeability. It's a well-used technique, and means neighbourhoods are totally free for access, but not through routes for cars to use as rat-runs.

This means quieter streets in residential areas, less conflict-opportunities between pedestrians/cyclists and motor vehicles yada yada yada.

[DJKillaQueen]

It could also be argued that a blanket low speed limit would encourage frustrated drivers to speed. At present, a driver can choose to stick to (hump free) main roads or not.The principle of a 20mpr borough wide zone is an excessive over reaction.

[Coops46]

Being frustrated is not an excuse. Southwark is following other councils doing the same, and the ideal scenario would be if all inner-London boroughs followed and z1-3 was a blanket 20mph.

No confusion about speed limits, less frustration and less scary roads.

[davidh]

I have no objection to a 20mph limit. but will southwark enforce it? can they enforce it without trebling the wage bill of traffic management?

[the-e-dealer]

Is this a minimum ? Most of the main roads seem to run at about 12mph most of the time. 20 would be a welcome improvement.

[DJKillaQueen]

I wonder why some people even leave their homes if they think london roads with anything above a 20mpr speed limit are scary!

[richard tudor]

If you live in ED you are special. Imagine coming in to contact with an Iceland supermarket and not Waitrose or M & S. Scary

[DJKillaQueen]

Ah yes.......I had forgotten that ED was a enclave, somehow seperate from the rest of London and indeed therefore 'special'............

[the-e-dealer]

M&S at 30mph - Scarey!

[richard tudor]

1

[peckhamside]

The research is in the Independant today, apparantly the human skull has developed to survive impacts of up to 20mph but any increase over that and the damage rises disproportionally and alarmingly.