New East Dulwich Primary School 161/80 + 102

[mrs.lotte]

Sorry, is the school in Rotherhithe? Forgive me if I don't rejoice and declare our problems are over. Not exactly local is it?

Please let us know what is being done to address an imminent mass shortfall or is it just proposed to wait until it's happened - again? It has been obvious now for 4 years (since the primary places problem exploded) has ANYTHING been done?

[James Barber]

Hi Mrs.Lotte,

Yes we've seen the East Dulwich Harris Boys Academy open locally which provides 150 boys places per year.

But the shortfall is that we need even more local places.

[mrs.lotte]

In 2008/2009 the local authority was totally taken by surprise by the lack of primary school places there was no advance planning. Harris was already underway so was not a reaction and I'm sure that you didn't mean to suggest that it was. Harris is already over subscribed, it has a banding system which means that many children come from far away whilst children living closer cannot find a local place.

My question was what secondary provision has been considered to meet the looming crisis which has been apparent for 4 years. Time is ticking away - what is the plan?

[samstopit]

James, I'm not sure I agree that secondary school children can travel further, if by further you mean Docklands. When they start at secondary school they will be 11 years old. There is no way they could travel that sort of distance to school and back, and no way I could get them there. Can we talk about local solutions to secondary schools? Personally I'd like to see a co-ed secondary school that local children could walk to or make a short bus journey there and back. And please can we look at alternatives to Harris?

Many thanks

S

[LondonMix]

I think the idea is that a school being created in the Docklands will free up spaces closer to ED as the allocation of school places is wider.

[mrs.lotte]

That may well be the idea but it's pie in the sky. The new Harris didn't free up places in Charter or Kingsdale or any other popular local school as far as I can tell, what conceivable effect can a modest sized school in Rotherhithe really have?

[intexasatthe moment]

I don't mean this unkindly ,but I think it's important to face up to the reality of the shortage of local secondary school places .

This has always ( well ,last 3 decades ) been the case ,with the recent improvement seen at Harris Girls ED , Kingsdale and The Charter improving the situation .

I can't see the situation changing ,there is a shortage/dearth of suitable sites ,and with all the secondary schools being their own admissions authorities and the majority controlled by sponsors there is very little hope of parents influencing choice of eg mixed sex style of any new schools .

It is ,and has been for many years ,common for a lot of 11 year olds to travel long distances .

I think it's a shame but it is doeable ,we have good transport links ,many travel in groups and most schools let them have a mobile phone so it as at least possible to stay in touch .

[workingmum]

Reading earlier, if I get this right?

For the current year 3 kids, who will start in sept 2013, Southwalk is anticipating a 10 class shortfall of secondary school places, with four of those classes being mopped up by a new secondary school already approved in Rotherhithe. Leaving a further 6 whole classes in southwalk who will be without a place.

James, you are saying "The primary school place crisis is expected to reach its full crisis Sept 2016. So we still have primary places to provide."

Can you tell us any more about what the plans are to meet this shortfall?

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi working mum,

there is also another secondary due to open in the Walworth/Camberwell area, on the site that is temporarily being used for Sacred Heart Secondary while their school is being rebuilt. there are also discussions/negotiations going on with some of the current secondaries over permanent expansions. Be aware that all of Southwark's schools are Academies or voluntary aided and therefore it's a different situation to the primaries that expanding. Be aware that there is pupil planning going on, which has anticipated the need for extra secondary places particularly for 2016 onwards (when the current year 3s go to secondary.)

A new primary will be opened within the former Bellenden school buildings and Bessemer Grange and Langbourne are permanently expanding. I am meeting with council officers at the end of next week to discuss school places.

Renata

Renata

[samstopit]

Hi Renata

Is the new school on the old Bellenden school site a separate school to the Harris school which has been approved? I wasn't aware of approval for a school on the old Bellenden school site. Could you clarify? If it is a separate school when will it open?

Thanks

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Sam,

the Harris school has funding approved but so far they haven't a site, however, they are hoping to build on the Dulwich Hospital site. This is independent to the Bellenden Old School reopening as a school.

Renata

[motorbird83]

Does that mean Dulwich Hamlet is no longer willing to expand permanently as well?

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi working mum,

> there is also another secondary due to open in the

> Walworth/Camberwell area, on the site that is

> temporarily being used for Sacred Heart Secondary

> while their school is being rebuilt. there are

> also discussions/negotiations going on with some

> of the current secondaries over permanent

> expansions. Be aware that all of Southwark's

> schools are Academies or voluntary aided and

> therefore it's a different situation to the

> primaries that expanding. Be aware that there is

> pupil planning going on, which has anticipated the

> need for extra secondary places particularly for

> 2016 onwards (when the current year 3s go to

> secondary.)

>

> A new primary will be opened within the former

> Bellenden school buildings and Bessemer Grange and

> Langbourne are permanently expanding. I am meeting

> with council officers at the end of next week to

> discuss school places.

> Renata

>

> Renata

[samstopit]

Thanks Renata

Is Bellenden Old School also scheduled to be open for September 2013?

S

[workingmum]

Hi Renata

Thanks for info re secondary schools in the area.

"Another secondary due to open in the Walworth/Camberwell area, on the site that is temporarily being used for Sacred Heart Secondary while their school is being rebuilt"

Do you have any info about this new secondary school?

Thanks

[Renata Hamvas]

Sam:not this year, I will know more about this and the new secondary after Thursday when I'm meeting up with officers.

Renata

[greenwater]

Renata - pls do keep us updated on the progress of the re-opening of Bellenden Old School. I would be very interested to hear more.

[James Barber]

I'm not sure many people from the Dulwich area would wish to send kids all the way to Camberwell or Peckham for secondary school. I wasnt suggesting local children go to Rotherhithe. I was highlighting that of the 10 Form Entry secondary school shortfall 4 are being relieved by a new school in Rotherhithe.

I believe we need another secondary school in our area as well as 235 additional Primary school places by 2016. ED Harris Primary school will provide 60 places, Judith Kerr 50 places, but that still even with the odd school expansion leaves us a serious shortfall. A further ED Primary school.

[James Barber]

This afternoon we had a meeting in East Dulwich to discuss the growing primary school admissions crisis.

We were fortunate to have Education Minister MP David Laws, Harris Foundation Chief Executive Sir Dan Moynihan with his Director of Projects and parents attend. Useful discussions and I firmly believe the minister listened.

[siouzie14]

Dear workingmum

You asked about the proposed new secondary school in Walworth. Details are at http://www.proposedueasouthbank.co.uk/

It's due to be called the University Engineering Academy South Bank and open in Sept 2014 in Trafalgar Street. Sacred Heart School are currently using the building but are due to move to a new building.

[LondonMix]

Renata,

Can you confirm if the expansion plans for Dulwich Hamlet have been put on hold?

Thanks,

LM

[greenwater]

Also is there any update on Bellenden Old School?

Thanks

[James Barber]

Hi greenwater,

Southwark council are considering getting an outstanding school/s to add an extra site - effectively creating new school there. Clever way around the rules of local authorities not being allowed to create new schools.

My lib dem colleagues and I suggested this as a possible many months ago so good to see progress.

Snag is the gov that's provided ?12.5m this year. A new school would gobble much of this. Whereas free schools we'd bring more extra money not Southwark.

Hi LondonMix,

Nothing public yet. But expanding it to four form entry would be risky and in my opinion not n the best. Teresa's of children. http://www.dulwichhamletjuniorschool.org.uk/noticeboard/documents/dec12.pdf

120 children in each year creates super large schools.

When lib Dems led Southwark Council the school improvement managers were explicit in their advice that deal primary school size to get great experiences for the children were 60-90 pupils per year. Separately I've had that advice from Sir Robin Bosher the ex.Failawn EAD and now director of primary schools at Harris Federation.

[greenwater]

Hi James - thanks for the update. Would you mind clarifying the point on budget? Do you mean that a new gov school at bellenden site would use most of 12.5m and therefore would be deemed a less attractive option than a free school? As local parents, how can we join the debate and over what timeline? Thanks

[James Barber]

Hi greenwater,

My understanding is that Southwark Council has been given ?12.5m this year, and similar last year, to spend as it see's fit to provide more school places - basic needs. Expanding schools or creating new schools.

Creating new schools is ally expensive as you have to create the whole school with all those ancillary buildings. Expanding a school is usually 'just' a matter of adding classrooms.

But the government also has the free school programme where it will pay all the costs of new schools. So using any of that ?12.5m isn't necessarily the best way to use it. We know that the partial rebuild of St.Anthony's primary school cost ?5m for a two form entry school.

Equally we know the ideal size of primary schools is two or three form entries (60-90)pupils per year which limits those that should be expanded.

You can join the debate by contacting your local councillors. Looking at Suthwark a councils Cabinet Agendas and commenting. Forming deputation to community councils and the cabinet to give your view. Raising petitions.

[tatum]

Just to add to this: the understanding of staff at Dulwich Hamlet Junior School which is mentioned in this thread is that the school governors were approached by Southwark officials to discuss the school taking on the Old Bellenden site and opening up a new school in the coming years. The staff and governors were keen to do this - we were all briefed that this was likely to happen and were excited as we love what we do and want to spread out for more children.

We were told today by senior management, that this will now not take place -we don't know why, except that Bellenden school will expand into old Bellenden buildings,so we s'pose that's the reason. We don't understand why we were approached in the first place if that was the plan to expand Bellenden school. It seems odd that one minute Southwark wanted us to open a school and the next minute they don't.