New East Dulwich Primary School 161/80 + 102

[James Barber]

Hi Fuschia,

I'm sorry you feel that. I thought I was being balanced by suggesting results in schools being expanded might not be affected while building works take place with a positive example - effectively dismissing a potential argument against expansion.

[DulwichHamJnrSchool]

Funding for bulge classes and proposed permanent expansion comes from "Basic Needs Funding":

"?800 million of basic need funding to local authorities to provide school places where needed in their area, in all categories of taxpayer-funded schools" from the Dfe website.

So Mr Barber is being a little foggy in the distinction he makes between Free Schools and existing schools which have been asked by Southwark to take bulges or permanently expand. Funding does not come from Southwark council tax.

Mr Barber has never spoken to DH regarding permanent expansion so should be careful about expressing opinions on our behalf. As Renata said previously, we would expand by 4 classes and not 7, if we were to expand at all.

[LondonMix]

Thanks so much. So the permanent expansion of any existing school (free academy or otherwise) can be funded from this 800 million central government pot?

Renata, I've looked up "Basic Need funding" and it appears that Southwarks 2012-2013 allocation of the 800m national budget is between 5m and 9m. Can you confirm what the amount is and if you think Southwark is prepared to use this to deal with the schools issue in the ED / Nunhead / Peckham area where the need is acute?

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinance/schoolscapital/a00200794/schools-capital-allocations-for-2012-13

[James Barber]

Thanks to everyone who stopped to say hi at our stall on Lordship Lane today.

One person who wished to remain anonymous said they were working on school numbers for Southwark. They were very clear new schools were needed to solve the problem in the Dulwich area.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Londonmix, I'm not sure, I suspect that is the funding for the bulge classes for 2012/13, but will get back to you once I have verification of this.

James, yes, I have a copy of the report, but thank you for providing the link so that residents can read it for themselves. A Council Officer involved in Pupil Planning actually came and presented the plans for the Dulwich area at the last Dulwich Community Council (I know you weren't there but hopefully your ward colleagues filled you in on this). Langbourne was discussed there. It actually has bulged for the academic year 2012/13 ie it has two reception classes rather than one.

Yes, money does go via a different pathway if a school is a Free school/Academy or an LA administered one. Free Schools are different to other Academies as they are new schools while the others are existing schools that have converted to Academy status. The funding of Free Schools does have an impact on the funding to the LA for its existing schools. Fewer pupils in LA schools means less money for those schools.

I'm glad to see the post from Dulwich Hamlet Junior School. It is very important to consider the viewpoint of the schools affected by all of this.

Location is still an issue.

I'm also not happy that opinions about the setting up of this school is being done predominantly via this forum. There are certainly many residents with young children in my Ward who have never been on the East Dulwich Forum. It's not an inclusive process at the moment. Also would the Harris Free School(s) East Dulwich/Peckham Rye/Nunhead be feeder schools to the existing Harris Academies? How would residents feel about that type of scenario? How could it impact on other primaries in the area?

Renata

[LondonMix]

Renata, when you say LA schools with less pupils will receive less money, this is because schools are funded per pupil correct? I can see if there was no overcrowding issues, creating a new school would force existing schools to run below capacity as they might potentially become undersubscribed, which might cause problems.

However, if there is overcrowding like in ED, surely this won't be a problem. The money existing schools would lose would only relate to the per pupil funding they are receiving for educating the extra students they take on via bulge classes, which if a new school were created, the bulge classes would no longer be necessary. If there is more to it than that, it would be great if you could elaborate.

Also, if you could explain where the funding for expanding Langbourne and Dulwich Hamlet will come from and what needs to happen to secure that funding including a timeline, that would be greatly appreciated. I think its important we understand the various options (including feasibility) in detail.

Thanks,

LM

[James Barber]

This morning the Labour led council have announced all the bulge classes they propose for September 2013:

- Albion, Bessemer Grange, Crawford, Dog Kennel Hill, Ivydale and Langbourne will all take an additional 30 reception pupils

- Camelot, Charles Dickens, and Grange will each take an additional 15 reception pupils. In addition Keyworth had already agreed to take an additional 15 pupils in 2013 and this information was included in the 2013 primary booklet.

So 7.5 extra temporary forms of primary school entries.

But the last cabinet papers 20 November pages 92-100 This morning the Labour led council have announced all the bulge classes they propose for September 2013:

Albion, Bessemer Grange, Crawford, Dog Kennel Hill, Ivydale and Langbourne will all take an additional 30 reception pupils

Camelot, Charles Dickens, and Grange will each take an additional 15 reception pupils. In addition Keyworth had already agreed to take an additional 15 pupils in 2013 and this information was included in the 2013 primary booklet.

So 7.5 extra temporary forms of primary school entries.

But the last cabinet papers pages 92-100 stated we'd need an extra 7-11 forms of entry to cope with September 2013 for Southwark. So zero margin for error and the one major lesson from the last four years of primary school admissions is you need to have margins for error.

For the Dulwich area where its predicted we'll need 2-2.5 extra forms of entry for September 2013 only 2 are being provided. But we also have the issue that the schools taking bulge classes are in locations people don't find easy to get to - Langbourne and Bessemer Grange.

[Renata Hamvas]

This is the confirmed list of definite bulges. There are also others that have been earmarked that may bulge, depending on the actual numbers of actual applicants from different parts of the Borough, ie there is planned and organised space for maneuver. All primary schools in the Borough have been assessed for their ability to have temporary expansions (bulges) and permanent expansions.

Renata

[James Barber]

Hi Renata,

That's not what your cabinet member for children's services has emailed.

[Renata Hamvas]

James,

what you and I have posted is the confirmed list that will certainly bulge. Yes, that is what is in the email. Yes that is what will definitely happen!

Don't you think it is sensible to have space for maneuver????

Renata

[Chillaxed]

Guys, any chance we could treat this as a 'conscience' issue and park the politics?

[Renata Hamvas]

OK, Chillaxed, I just wanted to assure residents that some sensible forward planning for primary places has gone on.

Londonmix, I'll have answers for you early in the new year.

Over and out

Renata

[James Barber]

I do but I wish the official comms to all emails and appearing on the website reflected what you're telling us and which other schools your colleagues are thinking they may bulge.

I can see pitfalls in broadcasting before applications close - it will affect how people try and play the system and encourage second guessing. But if you're going to do it do it thoroughly.

[LondonMix]

Thanks Renata. If you could provide the answers before the January 4th deadline for registering support for Harris that would be greatly appreciated. I actually like the idea of expanding the two schools you mention, assuming it doesn't compromise the schools' facilities significantly.

However, without an explanation of how your alternative can be funded, if the funds are secured (and if not what conditions need to be met) and the timeline in which your plan can be accomplished, I have no way of assessing if its in any way achievable / realistic. I am sure you can understand this, as these questions are at the heart of the viability of any proposal, not an afterthought.

Thanks,

LM

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OK, Chillaxed, I just wanted to assure residents

> that some sensible forward planning for primary

> places has gone on.

>

> Londonmix, I'll have answers for you early in the

> new year.

>

> Over and out

>

> Renata

[CPR]

There seems to be a lack of feedback on Harris schools from Harris parents on this forum. I chose to send my son to the new Harris Primary Free School in Peckham from ED and so far I would say that I'm quite impressed. The school clearly wants to do well and has a very positive approach and great support from many of the parents. So far, the children are happy, very well behaved and enjoy learning, which is exactly what you would wish for in Reception. The teachers are excellent and very enthusiastic and provide good feedback to parents. Parents have been encouraged to attend lessons so they can see how the children are taught for themselves. You can read the recent Department for Education visit report on the school's website. It is still early days for the school, and I'll be keeping a very close watch on my child's progress, but so far I'm happy and my child is happy.

[jonbateson]

We have a 3yo (dec 09) and 9mo (mar 12) and have just returned to the area, I am a secondary teacher and the lack of school places for a few years down the line is a huge worry. I would support a local option, and at the end of the day, as long as the school is right for my children, I am not too worried about who is running it, what do I need to do to show support?

[James Barber]

Hi jonbateson,

Just ping me an email to [email protected] with your name, children's date of birth and home postcode.

Happy Christmas.

[Otta]

It's taken 21 days to get 79. Not exactly a massive vote of confidence.

[LondonMix]

I think the 80 figure is just families with 1 and 2 year olds rather than general support as its only that segment who can officially register support. Within the population of ED, I wonder what percentage of suitable families that amounts to? Maybe 15-20%?

[James Barber]

81 is the number of families with children who will start at school in 2014 or 2015.

Many wont be thinking that far ahead. Many will assume they're close enough to a school they're happy with and they don't need a new school.

80 is the number expected to apply for a two form entry school. Fingers crossed the application will be successful. It would ensure along with the proposed Judith Kerr school that we have 110 places towards the shortage beings forecast.

[esme]

I think this area seriously needs better secondary schools, never mind primaries. I would support a further primary school if the evidence is there that places are needed (especially as this area is new nappy valley) but has anyone researched into secondary school needs or are we just all expected to pay for private education or move to the sticks once our children reach 12/13?

[James Barber]

Hi esme,

I also share your concerns.

Cllr Lewis Robinson as then chair of the Dulwich Community Council agreed to my request to ask a formal question about primary and secondary places for the Dulwich area at 29 November 2011 counrcil assembly - http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=25822&ISATT=1#search=%22secondary%20school%20admissions%22

The Question and answer are on page 14 Question 10. The then forecasts of primary places have since been revised upwards.

But the response around secondary school places was "The planning for secondary school places is carried out on a borough wide basis and therefore there is not a forecast for the Dulwich planning area". This is despite a question from the Rotherhither Community Council is May 2011 where an answere for Ritherhithe secondary school admissions was given referring to forecast to that area alone.

So once we've got January and the new East Dulwich Harris Primary school application submitted ED ccouncillors will be looking at secondary school places. With the latest primary school forecasts for the larger area stating we need 235 extra reception places a year and a normal secondary school takes 150 pupils per year - then despite the recent opening of the ED Harris Boys schools - it FEELS clear to me we need another local state secondary school.

[david_carnell]

Information on academies released today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20960500

[James Barber]

I would suggest reading the actual report:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6933673/130109%20-%20Academies%20Commission/Academies_commission_report%20FINAL%20web%20version.pdf

My understanding is that the Harris Federation is one of the chains referenced as being stunningly successful.

[david_carnell]

Having read the report and, given that Harris academies are not mentioned by name, I would instead leave you with quotes from the summary:

"...the evidence considered by the Commission does not suggest that improvement across all academies has been strong enough to transform the life chances of children from the poorest families..."

"...academy status alone is not a panacea for improvement."

Meanwhile it recommends that measures need to be taken before committing to more academies including:

"...to ensure that an increasingly academised system is fair and equally accessible to children and young people from

all backgrounds" and

"...to ensure that academies demonstrate their moral purpose and professionalism by providing greater accountability to

pupils, parents and other stakeholders. The role of governors is more important than ever in an academised system, and their

scrutiny and challenge should ensure effective accountability."

James - you seem unwilling or unable to listen to the very legitimate concerns parents have about the role of academies in the education of their children. Your only response is "they get results" and "we need a school" which, whilst undeniable in the short time they have existed, does not satisfy those of us concerned with the long term implications for education in the local area, Southwark and beyond.

There needs to be a mature, sensible and timely public debate about this rather than a petition that leads down a road of no return.