Subsidence

[Ratpack]

Would you buy a flat that you knew had subsidence? It hasn't been underpinned so could move if we have a hot summer. I would like to see what people think about it.

[PeckhamRose]

Hi - many stories does this block of flats consist of?

[mikese22]

If the mortgage company were happy to loan the money with no restrictions then yes - make sure that you can get insurance or that the freeholder has insurance though as a lot of insurance firms are really picky

[Ratpack]

The flat is the middle one of three.

[Drxyster]

I would strongly advise that you have a structural engineer survey the property prior to purchase.

[????]

The whole of SE London is subsiding (clay basin)...seriously, live with it or move to Yorkshire. How old is this place?...bet it's been their years....

[*Bob*]

Is it subsidence, or is it just movement?

The old 'one more hot summer' routine suggests that you've had a survey which came back with something along the lines of "the property has suffered significant movement blah blah borderline case for underpinning blah blah one more hot summer blah blah".

Surveyors (who are no expert in these matters) give you the worst case scenario in order to cover their arses.

If you can get a regular buildings insurance policy (preferably with the lender who also did the survey), then your house hasn't subsided. And if you can live with the possibility that it might need underpinning at some point (along with everyone else in SE22 who's house hasn't been underpinned!) then there's no reason not to go ahead.

[SteveT]

If there is a big fat tree at the front or rear buy the flat then chop the tree down.

[Jamma]

How often do you hear of houses falling down due to subsidence? Not very often. Whole of East Dulwich is subsiding, our hosue got massive cracks in the wall and visible evidence of a few inches movement but still got insurance.

Agree about the trees though, they are the real problem the big green bastards.

[MelbourneGr]

You cut any tree down in your back garden, or even "over prune" it, you'll get a heaving buldge in your back garden. You can take a risk and hope the buldge doesn't appear under your back wall...

"Surveyors (who are no expert in these matters) give you the worst case scenario in order to cover their arses" - Funny but 100% untrue...how do you think Banks/Insurance companies assess the risk?

[*Bob*]

I agree that you shouldn't rush into chopping trees down in an uninformed hope that it will stop your house from falling over. Removing a tree will cause a change in the water table and that change may - or may not - do the foundations of your house a favour. But lenders sure do looove to cut those trees down! Especially as the cost is under the usual ?1000 excess...

As regards surveys, you've got to have 'em, but they are a bit of a joke, most of the time. And yes, they give you the worse case scenario in order to cover their arses.

How often does a survey come back with Twenty Reasons Why Your House Is About To Fall Down but for some reason the lender seems more than happy to cough-up all the cash and also give you a regular insurance policy, despite the terribly fraught warnings?

On three occasions now, I've had cause to spend money on a real expert in order to investigate a perilous survey. On all three occasions they surveyor was found to be talking utter bollocks.

[Mark]

very true *Bob*, my survey said things like "roof shows signs of damp so I recommend getting checked by an expert", "boiler shows signs of ageing so I recommend getting checked by an expert". I paid for experts to come and check things and everything was fine, surveyors are liable if things they've OK'd go wrong so they write "should get it checked" so that they can't be sued.

[*Bob*]

I forgot to add:

The bank assesses the risk by a) having a look at the size of your deposit and b) sending someone over to make sure that the house exists, all four walls are roughly in place and that it's not likely to fall over in the next twenty-five years.

This is what you get with a basic valuation - which is all a lender requires.

Anything you want to spend on top of that for a fancier survey is for your benefit - not theirs. Like they give two hoots if your windowsills are rotten or the pointing is a bit iffy.

[*Bob*]

My favourite survey gaffe required the immediate replacement of a 'thirty year-old roof which was nearing the end of its natural life', despite the roof actually being a hundred and thirty years old and in need of a few slates re-fixing.

But cheers to them for pointlessly holding-up the sale of my flat, causing buckets of stress all-round, and charging the buyer a wad of cash for the benefit of their totally inexpert opinion!

[mikese22]

How exciting!

What type of heaving bulge exactly.....;-)

MelbourneGr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You cut any tree down in your back garden, or even

> "over prune" it, you'll get a heaving buldge in

> your back garden. You can take a risk and hope the

> buldge doesn't appear under your back wall...

>

> "Surveyors (who are no expert in these matters)

> give you the worst case scenario in order to cover

> their arses" - Funny but 100% untrue...how do you

> think Banks/Insurance companies assess the risk?

[SteveT]

Any hilly bits of london are liable to "settlement" or subsidence if you are an under-pinner.

Any flat bits of london are liable to flooding.

Pays your money..........

[MelbourneGr]

You can't generalise all Surveyors as "covering their arse". In situations where you have cowboy builders, dodgy DIY jobs and the like, it can be a good thing for a surveyor to cover his arse.

Banks use estate agent surveyors - they're the guys who tick boxes and arrive at conclusions. You go to a professional consultant surveyor and you will get a much better service and a much higher invoice.

Go for an RICS Surveyor if you want an accurate report done, covered by professional indemnity, and be ready to pay for it too.

[*Bob*]

Obviously I can't speak for all surveyors, as I haven't used all of them. Not yet, anyway. I can only go on personal experience, which is thus:

I've never used an estate agent surveyor. I've had two surveys, one Homebuyers (?500+) and one Full Structural (?1000+), both carried-out by RICS folks, and both contained arse-covering exaggerations. Roofs, flooring, structural movement, woodboring insect infestations, boilers.. the lot.

The 'professional indemnity' bit is exactly where the arse-covering happens. You get given a worst-case-scenario, which means the surveyor is in the clear if the worst happens. And if it doesn't.. well hey - you're hardly going to sue someone when it turns-out you're house is in much better shape than you initally thought, are you?

You have to learn to read between the lines when it comes to surveys. Unfortunately you don't always recognise this until you've had a couple of them, and by that time you've already wasted time, money and cacked your pants over something that was never a problem in the first place.

[lozzyloz]

Once you've got past the arse covering section a good survey will normally give you ammunition to go back and re-negotiate the selling price with the vendor. I don't buy pristine property so I usually get my money back from a survey. For a Hoemebuyer's survey I can recommend Burnett, Ware and Graves in Peckham and for a full structural M H Associates in Half Moon Lane.

[MelbourneGr]

Quite right, but it's not as crude as you make it sound.

Sometimes there are clients who won't understand a report and assume the worst, even when it isn't that bad.

I still recommend going to a professional consultancy rather than Estate agents that do homebuyers reports. The guys who do homebuyer reports may as well have been doing a culinary course before sitting their exam in construction technology.

[Asset]

When I sold my flat a few years ago the surveyor the purchaser called in diagnosed the marks in the floorboards - from the speaker-stands - as woodworm!

Edited for spelling

[lozzyloz]

From the size of your woofers you're lucky it wasn't subsidence>:D

[*Bob*]

Certainly I'll admit that I'm applying a little crudity in my depiction of the honourable profession of surveying.

I'm giving a worst-case scenario.

[MelbourneGr]

:))

[SteveT]

A lady friend went to sell her flat in a block of nine.

People making an offer had it surveyed, this stated block was moving on its axis so they pulled out.

A year earlier the flat beneath was purchased by a surveyor.

I have yet to be impressed by any surveyor that I have used.

Generally I find competent builders a more useful species to deal with.

So I'm with *Bob* on this: worst case, cover my arse, don't let anyone sue me, or make a claim on my insurance, because my premium will be too high, position