Other People's Children

[gerry]

I am writing an article and would like any views/comments/situations on how to care/cope/discipline other people's children. I am looking at childminders/grandparents/extended families/mixed families/friend's children at your home, at their home, on holiday together. Any personal thoughts would be most appreciated. Thank you.

[SteveT]

Stomp around with a face like:X and if any of them attract your attention at all, bring you right hand up to your left shoulder and growl 'back o' my hand' then turn away and stomp off.

After that all you will need to do is look hard stares at them, to make any child in the room, wither.

[gerry]

Steve, what happens if they run to their parents and say you are being mean???

[Asset]

he does the same to the parents

[SteveT]

:)) sure do, how well you know me Asset!

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

The estate my kids grew up on seemed to be fine with collective parenting, so i just shout, "oi, stop it" or something similar and give them a lecture on how it's not nice to do this or that or the other, if I see anyone's kids doing anything naughty. The habit has stuck so I find it difficult not to chastise kids being naughty/mean to eachother/fighting etc and my "oi" is very loud and accompanied by my furrowed brow so seems to work!

[SeanMacGabhann]

always works when you do it to me CWALD...

[gerry]

Hi CWALD

That is very helpful - I feel the same that we should all engage in collective parenting, but I think we are in the minority on this one. Parents tend to feel very protective of their children in these situations.......I agree completely with you and wish other parents did the same. Would you feel happy with other parents disciplining your children (or did you when they were younger?)

[Moos]

Gerry, are you looking at the teacher angle? It seems to be pretty much teacher lore these days that when a teacher disciplines a child, the parents are just as likely to abuse the teacher as support the discipline. (obviously there are 2 sides to these stories.. but still, I think it shows a shift in general approach to parenting)

[bignumber5]

I've asked a group of kids that were kicking a ball against my wall when I was on nights (so trying to sleep) and I went for polite reasoning, as this is how my parent-friends talk to their children of same age - kids looked at me like I was a moron, then kept on doing it. I went out and again, polite, calm explanation that what they were doing was not very nice for me, could they please stop and maybe find somewhere else to play with their ball. They said ok, but didn't move. I stood and waited and eventually they moved... over the road to a group of adults chatting. One child talks to one adult, same adult comes over just before I close my door to point out that I can't tell her child what to do. Apologised for misunderstanding, but I had asked, not told. She turns away mumbling a combination of expletives and patois. She tells the kids not to worry. The kids eyeball me as they walk away.

I think that there really must be a happy medium. I'm not advocating the days of any adult giving any child a swift cuffing, but the world revolves around children in many ways, and I think that child-protection and paedophilia have made people very suspicious of adult strangers socially engaging with children in any way. I also think that the problem arises if parent and other adult disagree over whether behaviour was wrong, because the parent has the veto, and then disciplines the other adult (as happened with me). Too polite? If I had barked at the kids, then responded to the defensive mother that if she managed them better then I wouldn't have to, would my point have been heard? Do you have to appear angry to demonstrate that something is annoying you?

Great, except what have the kids learned during this situation? Behaviour excused, self-centred view of world vindicated. Or strange adults are scary, angry people. Can't win. But...

Conversely, when I'm at work (as a nurse) and in uniform, people waiting for doctors will hand me their children with a level of blind trust, and ask my opinion on their minor foibles of parenting. They will also have no inibition in physically disciplining their children in front of me in a way that I doubt they would openly. Never a comfortable experience. But if people are in hospital and their children are running riot, I can talk to the children and the parents and both listen, almost like I'm disciplining the parents too.

I'm a stranger in both situations, yet it's context that determines whether or not my opinion counts for anything.

[jumpinjackflash]

bignumber5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've asked a group of kids that were kicking a

> ball against my wall when I was on nights (so

> trying to sleep) and I went for polite reasoning,

> as this is how my parent-friends talk to their

> children of same age - kids looked at me like I

> was a moron, then kept on doing it. I went out and

> again, polite, calm explanation that what they

> were doing was not very nice for me, could they

> please stop and maybe find somewhere else to play

> with their ball. They said ok, but didn't move. I

> stood and waited and eventually they moved... over

> the road to a group of adults chatting. One child

> talks to one adult, same adult comes over just

> before I close my door to point out that I can't

> tell her child what to do. Apologised for

> misunderstanding, but I had asked, not told. She

> turns away mumbling a combination of expletives

> and patois. She tells the kids not to worry. The

> kids eyeball me as they walk away.

>

> I think that there really must be a happy medium.

> I'm not advocating the days of any adult giving

> any child a swift cuffing, but the world revolves

> around children in many ways, and I think that

> child-protection and paedophilia have made people

> very suspicious of adult strangers socially

> engaging with children in any way. I also think

> that the problem arises if parent and other adult

> disagree over whether behaviour was wrong, because

> the parent has the veto, and then disciplines the

> other adult (as happened with me). Too polite? If

> I had barked at the kids, then responded to the

> defensive mother that if she managed them better

> then I wouldn't have to, would my point have been

> heard? Do you have to appear angry to demonstrate

> that something is annoying you?

>

> Great, except what have the kids learned during

> this situation? Behaviour excused, self-centred

> view of world vindicated. Or strange adults are

> scary, angry people. Can't win. But...

>

> Conversely, when I'm at work (as a nurse) and in

> uniform, people waiting for doctors will hand me

> their children with a level of blind trust, and

> ask my opinion on their minor foibles of

> parenting. They will also have no inibition in

> physically disciplining their children in front of

> me in a way that I doubt they would openly. Never

> a comfortable experience. But if people are in

> hospital and their children are running riot, I

> can talk to the children and the parents and both

> listen, almost like I'm disciplining the parents

> too.

>

> I'm a stranger in both situations, yet it's

> context that determines whether or not my opinion

> counts for anything.

The mother sounds completely stupid and ignorant and we wonder why a lot of kids nowadays grow up to be hooligans.

[SeanMacGabhann]

everyone has rights but no-one has reponsibilities - seems to be the order of the day

Good post as well BN5 - I've no answers but it's thought-provoking.

[Asset]

I'd be perfectly happy for an adult to ask my son not to do domething if he was being naughty or inconsiderate. Sadly I have been in a situation a few years ago when an adult took it upon himself to thwack my child in a moment of anger. That I can't forgive.

When my son has his friends round and they start getting too boisterous etc. I have no problem telling them to can it. Luckily his friends are not particularly naughty but if one did something really bad I would make sure the child knew I was unhappy with the behaviour and then tell the parent.

[bignumber5]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've no answers but it's

> thought-provoking.

Dammit, man, I want answers ;-)

[mockney piers]

Next time it happens BN5, have you thought of coming out the front door with scrubs* and blood stained marigolds on when asking politely?

It may have more of an impact.

*Scrubs is my only source of medical knowledge and terminology btw.

[buggie]

BN5 you've taken my angle!!!

Working in the same kind of enviroment as BN5 I am still surprised at the apathy of alot of parents who will let their kids run wild in the play area - any good toys/books are either nicked or broken within weeks of getting them. I find myself hainvg to tell the kids not to climb ontop of the playhouse/desks not to run laps of the department etc - and I have never had a parent have a go at me following this (maybe its the uniform!)

When out with friend's then there is a bit of co-parenting - if you see the kids doing something their not meant to its expected that you'll tell them to stop/explain what not to do.

What I find difficult is when out in Sainsburys or similar and find children misbehaving - I find myself saying things to them and whether I'm very firm but polite I don't know, but have never had a "what have you said to my child?" moment... can only think I'm way too well practiced and have it off to a fine art/reflex!

[bignumber5]

don't worry mockney, mine too ;-)

[buggie]

.... is quite scary the number of times I've gone for a break to find everyone watching scrubs in the staff room!

[DaveR]

There's been a lot of research on the issue of obedience to authority, one of the key conclusions being that support from others leads to high levels of compliance. The implications are consistent with common sense - if we educate our children to accept discipline from others, and as adults are supportive of collective discipline by other adults, kids are more likely to accept it.

Easier said than done, I know, but I do regularly ask/tell other people's children to stop doing things which are clearly wrong/dangerous etc. There have been occasions when parents of said children have been a bit touchy, but frankly, I don't care - just have to be prepared to run away if things get properly nasty!

[pablogrande]

Think you should change title to 'other kids parents'

Our little one is just over a year old and I have to say that it's taken a bit of adjustment to see how others discipline him for example my girlfriend's mum does a little mock slap on his hand when he's done something wrong it didn't really register at first but he started doing the same thing to us if he didn't fancy eating his dinner etc. The good thing is it's a good excuse to keep the in-laws away;-)

A friend of ours has a couple of kids and he and his wife are a lot stricter with them than I'd want to be. The kids are lovely, very polite and well behaved almost to the point that they don't express themselves properly and when we meet up I find myself telling them to lighten up a little and they take it with good grace, but I honestly don't know how I'd react if someone said that I should be more or less strict with my kids.

[SteveT]

I was at the pulse a couple of weeks ago and 4 children unsupervised were throwing things over the walls of there changing cubicles. I waited until children had emerged and called to the oldest one 'whats going on' he coloured up looked at his feet and mumbled nothin'. What did you say?

Asking a question generally puts them on their back-foot, and then they lie by being defensive and saying 'nothing'

you ask 'what do you mean, nothing' they generally compound the lie.

Time for the next question which might go something like 'so when I speak to your mother, father, policeman, hangman*, you will tell them 'nothin too' this time you mimic their 'nothin'.

By now you have done it, you have stuck it to the kid, and all will be well until you are out of sight and child will be back to normal bratlike self.

If you see the child again that kid will be reluctant to get up to any mischief in front of you.

* I understand this is now a historical post and sadly no longer relevant.;-)

[????]

I've found the 'naughty step' ineffective and am increasingly resorting to the 'naughty padlocked dark cupboard under the stairs'...

[Keef]

I think chav's way of doing it is totally acceptable, and would be good if it was common practice. However, if I saw someone shouting at my (as yet non existant) kid, I'd have to have a word, and if someone smacked my kid, I'd be very tempted to kick off with them!

[trinity]

I am happy to tell off other peoples' kids (as well as my own) when appropriate but this thread did bring to mind the time I had to take 3 children under the age of 4 to the doctors. Only one was ill but I had to take all three.

We were made to wait for 55mins after our appointment time in the tiny upstairs waiting area. This meant I couldn't put the little one in a buggy but had to hold her. Needless to say despite my best efforts to entertain the older 2, by the time we were called in to see the doctor they where, pretty much literally, climbing up the walls.

It was at this point the doctor told off my children for being too noisy. I was furious with her as my children had been well behaved for 40mins and I felt it was correct to support my children at this point and not the doctor.

I guess my point is that the adults behaviour needs to be appropriate.

[gerry]

Moos, I think that teachers do have a very difficult job, and in some schools inexperienced teachers are suffering because they haven't got the parenting skills to help them through the tough situations. Parents make their job more difficult by not backing them up, confusing the child.

What about grandparents? Should grandparents have the right to ignore what parents say when the grandchildren come to stay for the weekend? When it comes to sweets, bedtime, sugary cereals, what role should grandparents take...support the parents and stay consistent, or become the "special" friend to the children and spoil them a little????