Stop mega-nursery creating further traffic misery on East Dulwich Grove

[Nigello]

46 new jobs full-time is great for the local economy.

[legalalien]

Does this one work?

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=7234

Scroll down to item 6.1.

Sam

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Aha, that's the one! Thank you. I hadn't understood that there are various planning subcommittes as well as the main committee - but I suppose that makes sense in a borough as big as Southwark!

Highlights: planning officer recommends approval. Space for 195 kids. 45 full time jobs and 5 part time. 0700-1900 Monday to Friday. Competition with existing businesses ike next door is not a relevant planning consideration.

Site empty for some years, last used as members drinking club, with large former bowling green at the back. (I didn't realise this - good that the kids will have outdoor space). Sufficient space for onstreet parking and servicing. Transport plan implemented in response to first consultation.

Heritage acceptable, Grade 2 listed. No comments from Victorian Society or English Heritage. Basement for staff use only (unlike next door which has kids in basement iirc?).

120 letters of objection received inc about transport but also overdevelopment and "harmful noise" of kids playing in the play area. (This last one seems like impossibly mean NIMBYism, and the letter writer should have a word with themselves). Report drily notes that with adequate supervision there should not be significant events of children laughing or shouting, and overall noise impacg is insignificant.

12 letters in support.

Transport obviously the big one. Suggested that 11% of kids and 17% of staff would arrive by car, and that surrounding streets have sufficient parking to absorb that additional traffic at pickup and drop-off. Developer to build more cycle storage, have transport plan, and refurbish crossing on EDG.

[Nigello]

Thanks for the summary - I hope it goes ahead and that the transport plan proves itself. I like the fact that a semi-dilapidated but reasonably attractive older building is being used again, as well as all those jobs.

[worldwiser]

I?m curious. The demand for nursery places in ED is off the charts which is going to have to be met somehow, some day. There are local nurseries with literally hundreds on their waiting lists. Exactly where would this vital provision go if not here? The nursery we used was very successful in persuading people not to use their cars, and that was well before the nightmare of road closures happened. There is no way anyone is going to want to drive to this location at drop off and pick up times unless forced at gunpoint so I genuinely cannot see what the issue is.

[heartblock]

They will drive - they are driving even now in the chaos of ED Grove. Sitting in an air-conditioned car listening to your fav CD...dry if it is raining and cool in a heat wave. Only residents, pedestrians and cyclist suffer.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

...[citation needed]

Did you read the data in the planning document about how customers accessed the developer's other locations?

[heartblock]

I have no doubt it has a no drive policy, in the same way JAGS and Alleyns have and yet - they drive.

They park in no parking zones, on the pavement and even let the kids out in the road - I'm constantly amazed. Meanwhile the pavement is a cycle lane - with parents and kids on cycles and scooters. Southwark Council really need to get a grip of the situation.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I'll interpret that as a "no", then.

Since when do JAGS and Alleyns have a no drive policy? Do you have a link? I looked online but couldn't find one.

[heartblock]

Mmmmh that's the point the nursery has a 'no drive policy' in the same way JAGs and Alleyn's has a 'no drive policy' - in that neither has - they can't stop parents from driving they can only encourage.

You can interpret any way you want. They may promise staggered arrival and to minimise idling vehicles, but pretty soon the Council will lose interest and promises can be forgotten. I actually don't object to the building being a nursery, there is a need in ED - but I have no doubt it will lead to extra traffic on an already busy road.

[DuncanW]

JAGS and Alleyns don't have no-drive policies. They encourage, but that's within a context of openly attracting pupils from a wide catchment area. They run school buses but clearly there are many that choose to drive. And I agree that the behaviour of some of those is pretty poor in the way you describe.

The nursery won't be operating with the same wide catchment as has been discussed before. And as a new enterprise, could take a tougher approach with their new customers; eg they would have the home address and could have agreement on an acceptable travel plan before accepting new joiners.

There's nowhere to park near there anyway.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

heartblock Wrote:

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> Mmmmh that's the point the nursery has a 'no drive

> policy' in the same way JAGs and Alleyn's has a

> 'no drive policy' - in that neither has

Pretty vapid point when JAGS and Alleyns don't have "no drive policies", and neither does the new nursery. Reading the document would clear up your (evident) confusion.

[Earl Aelfheah]

As I understand it there is high demand for nursery places locally. So a new nursery should probably be welcomed.

People will make choices about how to get there and I would hope many will choose not to drive. But ultimately, a business can't dictate those choices. The council / planners can seek to influence them however by making it more expensive / less convenient to drive, and / or by making walking or cycling more appealing.

It's noticeable that some of the same voices that support opening up the quieter walking routes that link people travelling to this nursery (Elsie, Derwent, Melbourne) to traffic, also want to limit the number of people who will end up driving to the nursery.

It seems fairly obvious that making it both less pleasant and safe to walk / cycle to, and more easy to drive to, won't result in fewer cars pulling up outside the nursery.

[oimissus]

Is there a high demand? The birth rate is dropping and previously oversubscribed schools are advertising vacancies.

[DuncanW]

Yes, there currently is high demand.

oimissus Wrote:

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> Is there a high demand? The birth rate is dropping

> and previously oversubscribed schools are

> advertising vacancies.

[goldilocks]

There is continued high demand for (good) childcare in this area. This provider is at the expensive end of the market but looks to have great provision. Its exactly what we would have wanted when we had small children and would have meant that we wouldn't have had to travel to W Dulwich every day such was the scarcity of the provision locally.

[rachp]

Just because there are too many school places doesn?t mean there are too many nursery places?. When I put my now two year old down for a nursery place (when I was 3 months pregnant), we only managed to get a place because she had an older brother at the nursery. So based on my own experience, there was a shortage a couple of years ago (most nurseries never even bothered coming back to me). This situation could have changed due to COVID but we?d need to see up to date data to make that judgement.