camberwell old cemetary

[lameduck]

Does anybody know what is going on on the Woodvale side of old Camberwell Cemetary?

They had 3 JCBs churning up the ground, it seems to appear that the old graves have been

removed, and it looks like a road or something being built.

[computedshorty]

There was an article that said the whole Cemetery was to be cleared of Memorials and the ground raised with earth to a height of six feet higher to be able to start from scratch with new berials.

Book early.

[lameduck]

Computedshorty Thankyou for your response. Where did you get this from?, and what happens

to us who have family buried there. There are a lot of new graves my mother is one of them.

Surely they just cannot do this.

[Louisa]

Is this actually happening? If so I a, horrified. I have family and know of other people with family buried there and have not received any warning. This is an utter disgrace if this is what is happening. Where do I get more information on this?

Louisa.

[gpercival78]

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=22391

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s27025/Camberwell%20Cemetery%20Old%20Cemetery.pdf

[computedshorty]

Extract from

Southwark Council Minutes:

Deborah McKenzie from public realm updated the meeting on proposed works at Camberwell Old Cemetery. Deborah explained that the council looked after 3 cemeteries in the borough, Camberwell Old, Camberwell New and Nunhead. All 3 were running out of space for burial. Deborah introduced Paul Harrison, a landscape architect working for the council, to explain some of the long terms changes which would be taking place at Camberwell Old cemetery this year.

Paul explained that an area had been identified on the south side of the cemetery alongside Wood Vale, near to the Lewisham boundary. This had been an area of public burial up to the 1920s and 1940s with no real monuments and no rights to graves. Paul explained that traditionally soil was brought into cemeteries and placed over the top of existing graves so further burials could continue on the raised level. This method had taken place on the site pre-war. It was proposed that this method be used again in the area identified. This would require some removal of trees but a number of trees in that location were of poor quality and new tree planting would be done. The work was planned for late summer and would last approximately 12 weeks, with a new access to the cemetery required off Wood Vale for lorries. The proposals were subject to planning approval which was currently being applied for.

[spark67]

I live right by where the works are being carried out There were notices on the front gates last year and on the gates on Langton rise/woodvale with the names of the graves which were to be covered & asking anyone who was related or knows of the families involved to contact the council. I am assuming (hoping) this is because they had tried all other channels and were making sure the graves still didn't have any visitors still. I walked passed the Area a lot as i walk through sometimes to get to forest hill road, I didn't notice many graves in that area, and the few I did see looked very old and neglected.

I thought it was sad they had to destroy some of the trees though, clearing something living for the dead ;/

I think this is common practice though, My grandparents graves in hertfordshire from the 1990's have a 50 yr "Expiry date" I think a clause in the contract says that if no relatives come forward at that time to renew them they will be reused.

[mynamehere]

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,563303,564950

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,563303,564950

This went through in 2010 and 2011

The councillor in charge is uniquely without new ideas and people skills. Bulldozers and trucks and cement seem to be the people's will and the lowest common denominator. I do not get why we are never asked to change the way we do thinks, asked to evolve to greener, less wasteful

http://sunrisingburialground.co.uk/memorials/trees.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/0/19272231

http://bigthink.com/design-for-good/

Why not trees as memorials with benches under them? Orchards which make jams and are harvested and people are remembered forever with living produce: Auntie's favourite blackberry jam

I just don't get this complete lack of imagination.

[Penguin68]

The area that is being filled-in (and the surface raised by about 4 foot) was regularly (certainly along the Langton Rise boundary) heavily waterlogged in the winter - and would have been completely unsuitable for continued burials. So something had to be done, although what that is may not necessarily be what has actually been done.

We will need to see what the 'remedial' re-planting will be - taking into account the narrowing group of native trees that aren't being infected by 'foreign' pathogens - but right now the Wood Vale/ Langton corner looks a complete mess - and is certainly taking far longer to complete than was planned. Like so many 'works' in SE London it is quite rare to see anyone actually working on them.

It would be nice to see flowering and fruiting trees being planted - though how practical that is in a cemetary I am not sure. I am also assuming that the unpathed elements will be re-seeded with grass seeds. Again wild meadow grasses with wild flowers would be a positive addition to the area, but I would presume that this wouldn't be consistent with regular mowing that I am sure will be scheduled.

[steveo]

Cemetery

[edhistory]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the Wood Vale/ Langton corner looks a complete

> mess - and is certainly taking far longer to

> complete than was planned. Like so many 'works' in

> SE London it is quite rare to see anyone actually

> working on them.

>

Is this a F.M.Conway contract?

John K

[Renata Hamvas]

Hello all, there was extensive consultation over this, there were public meetings (Open days with Council Officer attending at Honor Oak Rec, Camberwell Old Cemetery and a meeting at Tooley Street). The easiest and cheapest option was to have used Honor Oak Rec. Both local councillors and residents said no to this option.

There was an extensive tree survey in this area of Camberwell Old Cemetery. Trees that are being removed are on the whole structural unsound or diseased. There will be new trees planted and also extensive planting along the boundary with Wood Vale. I know many people don't want a traditional burial, but there are also people who for personal or religious reasons do. It was clear from the survey that residents do want the option in Southwark of a traditional burial. For this reason Mynamehere, your suggestions would appeal to some but not all of Southwark's residents.

I shall find out re schedule on this.

Renata

[Penguin68]

Walking by the cemetery yesterday (Sunday) I noticed a large number of plants put out waiting for planting, including a lot of (I assume ground) ivy, some dogwood (I think) some either cypresses or (which would be traditional) yew trees, some broad leaf deciduous trees etc. All quite small (nothing seemed taller than 5-6 ft) but it does look like a very positive move.

[JDR]

Can I ask about the opposite side of the cemetery which is closed off and very overgrown with trees.... Are there any plans to mprove this and possibly make use of that space also?

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi JDR, do you mean the other end, backing onto Ryedale?

Renata

[fl0wer]

For 'very overgrown with trees' please substitute 'a most valuable wild life resource, which we should treasure as it is home to East Dulwich's songbirds'

Many old-timers remember camping here as children!

.....it is also home to a great many wrecked 19th century memorials, huge numbers of seedling sycamores, and a patch of Japanese knotweed (cordoned off for herbicidal spray at present).

Please, folks, help me conserve this lovely area of haphazard woodland. In the middle of a great noisy sprawling city here's a piece of refuge for all who love genuine biodiversity. All it really needs is an occasional litter pick, broken glass and plastic don't belong here. The fly tippers over the wooden fence along Underhill Rd, who are messing up a nature reserve in effect, need to know that from the houses opposite we can record their selfish behaviour, includng taking van registration plate numbers.

Another thing, 300,000 people have been buried over the many centuries of Camberwell Old Cemetery's life. It is likely that each gravesite has already been the final resting place of four people, on average. In these hallowed places it is surely more civilised not to instigate too much of a 'clear-up'.

The rebuilding over on Wood Vale side is almost complete and was scheduled to provide gravesites for 2,000 more dreamers. I won't be one of them; have asked for my ashes to be sprinkled in any piece of favourite woodland my children choose, and we are very sorry to see how many of COC's graves get flooded on the unstable London clay.

[fl0wer]

PS The contractors are the same people who landscaped and restored Brockwell Park over the last few years.

[langlounge]

If Councils in London are going to keep offering people the option to be buried, the choice is either to reuse existing graveyards (something which has always happened in English history, happens in every other urban area in the world, and in the UK) or - and this bonkers idea has been unique to Southwark - start turning the few remaining urban public parks into graveyards.

Southwark has been unique, over the last 40 years of so, of having a vociferous group of individuals who were distorting the policy on burial, by objecting to any reuse of the existing cemeteries. Parts of Nunhead Cemetery and Camberwell Old Cemetery were destined to be carefully reused following a comprehensive survey of those sites in the 1970s. A small group of graveyard enthusiasts lobbied - mostly behind the scenes - to stop this happening. In 1991, the then Cemeteries Manager, together with this same small group, developed a plan to get a large part of Honor Oak Rec turned into a graveyard instead of following the balanced and sustainable plan for reuse of the existing cemeteries - a plan that had been carefully developed in good time in the 1970s to provide for the coming "burial shortage". This left Southwark as the only council in the country which was prepared to turn an urban park into a graveyard - every other local authority in the country having decided that if they were going to carry on using burial plots, reuse was the way ahead.

There has been extensive publicity about the plans for the cemeteries in Southwark since 1991, when the original Friends of Honor Oak Rec group started up, and let people know about what had been happening behind the scenes. FOHORG managed to stop Southwark Council turning the whole of Honor Oak Rec into a graveyard. Honor Oak Rec is a heavily used inner city park with fantastic views out over Kent, providing the only open space for, among others, over 3,000 people and many young families living on the high density Honor Oak Estate.

Councils don't have to offer burial at all and graveyards are hugely expensive to maintain - only a minority want burial but for some reason we are all made to pay for it. Burial is an expensive personal choice (whether for religious or other reasons) and it's not clear to me why the heavy ongoing cost of this personal choice comes out of public funds when essential services for the living have been chopped.

[edhistory]

> This left Southwark as the only council in the country which was prepared to turn an urban park into a graveyard

A slight re-writing of history here?

John K

[henryb]

Which other ones are?

[edborders]

This was an earlier thread about how the council is tearing down the Camberwell Old Cemetery Wood. Sad...

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,899412,page=1