BNP ad in Ham & High

[Maximay]

My reply was aimed at KK, as sarcasm, saying one thing and then backtracking when it got a bit too hot in there!

[KalamityKel]

Maximay... thanks

[annaj]

So, if understand this correctly, you're deflecting attention away from questions on your opinion, by teasing Kel about backtracking when questioned.

Ironic?

[DaveR]

It can be said, perfectly legitimately, that the effects of unplanned immigration include strain on public services, and downward pressure on wages for some jobs/trades. For example, there are sure to be some parts of the UK where some residents are genuinely worse off as a result of recent substantial immigration from Eastern Europe.

The BNP trade on this by offering a simple solution - in the short term we will favour "you" (i.e. local white people) and in the long term we will make "them" (everybody else) go away. It's a horribly divisive and unpleasant message (and reveals the essentially racist nature of the organisation) but it is attractive to people who are not represented by any of the major parties, who have generally focussed on the alleged benefits to the national economy, and ignored specific local issues.

[Brendan]

Their involvement also makes it more difficult to sensibly address the issues.

[Keef]

annaj Wrote:

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> Ironic?

LOL

[MelbourneGr]

I don't actually read into it much, I haven't been too interested but things like:

* Jobs being taken by foreigners

* Housing going to foreigners

Pretty much anything that should belong to someone of British decent. That really is the BNP in one line.

I felt a bit stupid thinking "Yes, how true" to some of the BNP points. When you consider the following crude points:

* Nobody wants a cleaner job's anymore apart from immigrants

* It is in fact harder to get a council house when you move to this country; preference is given to those born here

* Government decisions from the past have made is somewhat easy for foreigners to migrate - this is no longer the case

* Consider: BNP has it all their way - what would the UK be like?

Once again, the BNP disguise things in a clever way.

[Brendan]

Bloody immigrants. You can?t order a beer without tripping over a sun-leathered pom in my home town. ;-)

[bignumber5]

A quick bit of simple fact to demonstrate the shear stupidity of the BNP - the definition of indigenous. This came up pretty frequently when working in healthcare in NZ.

As set down by the World Health Organisation, INDIGENOUS: the population of a country before the last invasion of that country.

Based on this, and the last successful invasion of Britain being the Normans in 1066, anyone of Scandinavian, Norse or Roman Decent, Anglo-saxon, celts, gaelic... all ok. But anyone of Norman decent must go? Must we all take up genialogy and establish 10th Century heritage in order to stay in the UK, but late 11th Century lands you on a one-way boat to France?

And re-patriation would have to work in both directions: Does the entire white population of The US, Australia, New Zealand etc have to come "back" to the uk? BNP - you promised that re-patriation would free up jobs and housing and end the problems of the nation: what about the 1 billion new arrivals? (I know they've dialled down on re-patriation of late)

What kind of a political party doesn't even agree with its own ideas?

BNP - Not just a bunch of mindless Racists tossers, but not very clever either... Please address any further arguements regarding what is and is not British and who should and should not be here to anyone in the population who knows absolutely that they are 100% "indigenous" (virtually nobody).

In the mean time, our Celt Prime Minister, German Royal Family and the rest of us (who have no idea whether or not your mind-blowing prejudice includes us or not) have better things to do.

[MelbourneGr]

I live in the comfort that the BNP will never amount to anything serious.

[annaj]

MelbourneGr Wrote:

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> I live in the comfort that the BNP will never

> amount to anything serious.

Unfortunately, it is that sort of dismissive complacency that allows them to quietly gather support without anyone noticing. The whole point of this thread is that they are already being taken seriously in some areas and you even said youself how easy it would be to be sucked in by their marketing.

As several people have already said, it'a really important to look at their policies and open up the debate in order to expose how unpleasant, unethical and unworkable they really are.

[spadetownboy]

LizzygotDizzy Wrote:

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> Sorry for being dim but, what does it mean when

> you leave an (.) mark on a completely blank answer

> to a thread or reply? Does it mean that you want

> people to know you are aware of the topic but have

> chosen to make it known that you do not want to

> comment, other than to make that fact known?

> Sorry having a moment, must be all that jogging

> gone to my head

its actually morse code, you need to be patient with it and over the course of the thread the reply will be revealed.

[blinder999]

"...further investigations by the Standard show that the far-Right party's 10-strong list of candidates includes:

Chris Forster, a psychic who, according to his website, specialises in the "use of the crystal ball, clairvoyance and mediumship" to "develop opportunities" for businesses and individuals. He promotes himself as "the only qualified internal auditor and accountant working full-time as a psychic".

Roberta Woods, who was recently employed in an important branch of the legal system, despite a conviction for contempt of court. During her attachment to the Legal Services Commission, which distributes legal aid, she complained the legal aid budget was going to too many "aliens".

Lawrence Rustem, a man of mixed race allowed into the BNP because, in the words of one of his fellow candidates, he is "only half a wog".

John Clarke, who was reported to police by a London council after setting up a front address and falsifying his nomination papers to stand in the last borough elections.

Richard Barnbrook, also the BNP's mayoral candidate, who directed a gay porn film, HMS Discovery. "

[MelbourneGr]

annaj Wrote:

>

> Unfortunately, it is that sort of dismissive

> complacency that allows them to quietly gather

> support without anyone noticing. The whole point

> of this thread is that they are already being

> taken seriously in some areas and you even said

> youself how easy it would be to be sucked in by

> their marketing.

>

> As several people have already said, it'a really

> important to look at their policies and open up

> the debate in order to expose how unpleasant,

> unethical and unworkable they really are.

Quite right. They are slowly running out of steam though. Give it 10 years. I hope I don't have to eat my words.

[SteveT]

The word 'racism' according to Enoch Powell has been tarnished or twisted, by the press.

Racism means to look after one's own race which we all do to some extent.

We all want our children to do well it is only natural.

Immigrants who have come here are just as racist as us white indigenous natives, as far as I am concerned it is a natural act to fight for one's own, it is not as strong as saying 'tribal' which I suppose is the next unusable word on the horizon.

The word 'nigger' has also been distorted by the press. 'Nigger' was a colour of shoe polish which you could buy anywhere or the name of the black dog down the street. It was not known as an offensive term but just a colour.

From the immigrants that I know and talk to, they are very much against immigration and want it to stop and question why does it continue?

[LizzygotDizzy]

The word "Nigger" derived from the term negro Steve T and is well known to be a derogatory word for a black person. Other things things like colour of boot polish etc. were then used as reference to how much the colour was like a black person, there was also a wool colour (not that long) ago called "nigger brown" too. I have heard someone try to justify the term "Wog" by saying it meant Westindian Orientated Gentleman.

(edited to remove any strong emotionals!)

[LizzygotDizzy]

As far as I am aware, the word "Nigger" was never initially ever used to describe a colour before it was used as an offensive term for a black person!

[SeanMacGabhann]

SteveT

Are you absolutely sure about that last post? Have you written something you meant or can it be misconstrued?

I have no idea what you mean by "one's own race" - most of us are mongrels surely?

WHat do you mean by "the next unusable word on the horizon"?

Are you really not aware of the struggles of black people throughout history and the very specific meaning of white people calling black people by that term? Do you think the dog down the road with that name was just a happy accident?

Have Anglo-Saxon people a long history of cotton-picking and being slaves and burning crucifixes turning up outside their home?

Which immigrants do you know who want to stop immigration and do you point out to them that you want them out as well?

Are you going to send me back in fact? I need to know!

[SteveT]

Did not mean to upset you LizzygD I was merely putting the case from my childhood.

It was not meant to incite an emotional riot.

I know it is a derogatory word now and has been for many years but it was not the case when I was a kid.

The term WOG was never the colour of a tin of shoe polish, that is more recent never heard it as a kid.

[LizzygotDizzy]

Have to say, am somewhat surprised at the lack of posts from the usual mob on this subject, but maybe this has all been done too many times before, or perhaps its that they just have nothing to say on the matter and have basically "all gone quiet over there!"

[SeanMacGabhann]

I think you'll find it was SteveT - you just weren't aware of it.

[LizzygotDizzy]

Sorry, sorry, I take it back, I stand majorly corrected! (re me being the only one (among a few) who seem to be getting offended by it all, apologies X

(must learn to shut gob! must learn to shut gob! am doing my lines now!)

[SeanMacGabhann]

several people away on holiday or new jobs as well LgD so..... not as many eyeballs I suspect

[david_carnell]

I don't know if I count as "the usual mob" but I'll add my two cents:

I've met SteveT and don't wish to slander him in public (plus it would be quite embarressing at the next drinks!) but I don't agree with his remarks. Lizzy and Sean are right in their assertions as to the origin of the "n-word".

SteveT, I appreciate that it was clearly different when you were a child and that sort of language could be used quite freely amongst your peers (whom I'm guessing were white) - regardless of its use in hip-hop or amongst the black community -it is now considered rather offensive and has been for all of my (25yr) lifetime.

Things move on. It's not the PC-brigade gone mad stereotype either; it's civility to your fellow man. I think we'd all hope that can be understood no matter how young or old you are. Best not use that sort of language again around here, eh SteveT. Whether you didn't mean to offend or not it doesn't go down well.

[annaj]

Steve, I don't have time to address this as fully as I'd like to, but I can't say nothing in response to that post.

As Sean and Lizzy have already pointed out, the shoe polish was named after the offensive term, not the other way around. It's a word that was originally used to refer to the slaves and has been used since to oppress and insult since then. I'll concede that it's use now, in music and youth culture, is contraversial and there are those who'll argue that it's empowering, but it's use in the past was unquestionably offensive. That you didn't think so as a child reflects your lack of awareness of it's connotations and origin, not that it was a harmless word.

As for the concept that rascism is just looking out for your own, it is flawed in so many ways. Like Sean, I'm perplexed by the concept of white people all being one race when clearly we are all a mix of many ethnic influences over time - I, for example, am short, olive skinned and dark haired, MrJ is a foot taller than me, pink skinned and blonde. Do we have the same genetic origins? Almost certainly not, but we are both caucasian English.

Even if you suspend disbelief and accept that concept, what about this idea of "tribalism"? Where are the boundries? Is my tribe my family? My friends? My race? My species? And why do I need to fight for "my own"? I don't feel under attack.

There is more I could say, but real life calls.