LTN Discussion

[legalalien]

What I?d like to know is whether LD village ward candidate Richard Wingfield is related to long term Labour councillor Ian Wingfield. Just because the LD pamphlet says he is frustrated with the Labour council?s lack of responsiveness etc. I?m guessing not.

For the record, the LD pamphlet says they want to ?Make Southwark the greenest borough in London by protecting our green spaces, reviewing the impact of the Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Dulwich, investing in green transport and tackling congestion...?

The Conservative one says they?ll campaign to reopen closed roads (and is just about the closure thing although it does talk about democracy, representation and accountability as key issues).

[Metallic]

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What I?d like to know is whether LD village ward

> candidate Richard Wingfield is related to long

> term Labour councillor Ian Wingfield. Just because

> the LD pamphlet says he is frustrated with the

> Labour council?s lack of responsiveness etc. I?m

> guessing not.

>

> For the record, the LD pamphlet says they want to

> ?Make Southwark the greenest borough in London by

> protecting our green spaces, reviewing the impact

> of the Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Dulwich,

> investing in green transport and tackling

> congestion...?

>

> The Conservative one says they?ll campaign to

> reopen closed roads (and is just about the closure

> thing although it does talk about democracy,

> representation and accountability as key issues).

Wingfield posts this morning from his canvassing in --------Herne Hill Market. Does he know where Lambeth is, because he is in it. Additionally wanting to bring Santander bikes in to the ward. Good luck with that.

[legalalien]

Seems Lambeth are starting to collect commonplace feedback for a potential LTN in West Dulwich. Only read a few comments but it seems many of the residents there aren?t keen, having seen what happened in Southwark. Quite confusing as a number of pro closure and anti closure comments both show as red - I guess that?s because it?s generic input at this stage rather than a response to a specific scheme, so ?road is too busy now? and ?we don?t want our road closed? both show as negative comments.

I wish they?d scrap commonplace, I think it?s unhelpful as it only engages a few people and not necessarily from a broad range of residents, and doesn?t stop multiple comments from the same people using different email addresses etc.

https://westdulwich.commonplace.is/

[DulvilleRes]

The Conservatives are campaigning in the May local elections heavily around issues of accountability from Southwark in relation to the LTN's. I'm finding this a bit of a stretch, given the track record of their party at a national level.

Given that some local people have been profoundly affected by the rule-breaking in Downing Street, and some have gone on a very public record to record their disgust and distress both in Parliament and in the media, I would have thought the most accountable thing the prospective Conservative councilors could do for their community would be to resign membership of their party.

[legalalien]

I don't think so - a bit of whataboutery?

I tend to vote differently in local elections than for general elections - I expect more local accountability from councillors than I do MPs (although I am very much in favour of MPs being more accountable to their constituents and am highly supportive of backbenchers exercising their muscle against party HQ, whatever the party). I don't think the solution for conservative MPs or councillors is to resign - rather, it is to demand change. And ideally break the system of whipping which I'd like to see gone except in matters of supply.

[mrwb]

Would they be able to stand in this election as independents?

DulvilleRes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Conservatives are campaigning in the May local

> elections heavily around issues of accountability

> from Southwark in relation to the LTN's. I'm

> finding this a bit of a stretch, given the track

> record of their party at a national level.

>

> Given that some local people have been profoundly

> affected by the rule-breaking in Downing Street,

> and some have gone on a very public record to

> record their disgust and distress both in

> Parliament and in the media, I would have thought

> the most accountable thing the prospective

> Conservative councilors could do for their

> community would be to resign membership of their

> party.

[Rockets]

Legal - I think you are right, a lot of people use their votes differently in local council elections. Granted a lot use it as a means to send a message to national government but also a lot don?t bother to vote at all and I think the issue for Labour is whether people who have not voted before feel motivated enough to get out and vote. I suspect the local anger with the way the council has treated many local residents may act as more of a catalyst to get out and vote than registering a message to national government. It is with me - I just need to decide where my tactical vote goes.

The issue is that the Dulwich Village ward saw a pretty close run election last time and a small swing will have an impact.

Bottom line is the council have, by the way they have managed the LTNs, created a one-issue election in many of the Dulwich wards and the choices seem clear on the mandates for each of the candidates in terms of their approach to LTNs.

It has been incredibly foolish for the council to ignore the local sentiment throughout the local LTN debacle and it may come back to bite them in May. They massively under-estimated the backlash amongst the local community.

[keano77]

Spanish pig farmers invade Lorca town hall in protest likened to Capitol Riots

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/spanish-pig-farmers-invade-lorca-town-hall-in-protest-likened-to-capitol-riots-vgtzg3f5g

I?m not condoning such actions but it?s important little Hitlers realise they can?t ride roughshod over people.

Vote the buggers out

(Spelling)

[legalalien]

Interesting, as were the linked articles, including about the ?emptied Spain? movement.

[JacksonMichael1]

Thank you for sharing this information with us.

https://clickbankproductreviews.org/outback-belly-burner-reviews/

[Spartacus]

Could this be the beginning of the end ?

BBC News - London's walking and cycling schemes could lose out in TfL cuts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60221161

[heartblock]

It is crazy that bus routes are planned for cuts in services, while wealthy streets full of SUVs, Mercedes, BMWs and Range Rovers, with multiple car ownership are given a gated road. The local Labour run Councils in London should hang their head in shame for adopting this green-washing policy.

Encouraging people to walk and cycles has nothing to do with closing roads - walking and cycling, or travelling by bus on so called boundary roads (or high density residential school roads as I call them) during the busiest time for pedestrians and cyclists is appalling and for residents the pollution is criminal.

[Metallic]

I'm not a conservative but I will vote for the two candidates. Labour has lost my vote locally because of the way they have ridden roughshod over a large majority of residents. The Tory candidates at least divorce themselves from the national behaviour and I would never dismiss messing up a dictatorship, which is what we have in Southwark, by having a few people brave enough to take it on.

I don't like the LTNs or living on the edge of one which makes my road too quiet as people use another route as they think they can't get through. I don't like the way the present councillors talk over and ignore what we residents feel. Neither deserve our support.

[ab29]

I'll vote Tory too. Have never done it before and could not do so nationally but locally, anything to shake the Tower of Sauron (aka Tooley Street).

[ab29]

Petition against LTN in Lewisham

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/13000-people-sign-petition-against-low-traffic-neighbourhoods/?fbclid=IwAR08rlh57kqK7pJw0b73EVm7Niouo83hCVqjepczYER6_5uFsrFuavzbZb4

[Bic Basher]

All 54 seats on Lewisham Council are Labour which helps them even more than Southwark to railroad these schemes through.

That may well also change in LTN affected wards in May.

[legalalien]

The thing is, though, that the ward councillors have little real power - even if they do choose to use it to represent their constituents rather than promote the party policy line.

So getting a couple of opposition councillors on DV ward for example won?t make a difference in terms of changing policy if Labour still have an overall majority.

I?m going to vote for someone other than Labour this time to register my disappointment in the current ward councillors. Haven?t decided who I will vote for yet, whoever seems the most locally based / not a career politician / acknowledges that there are at least two sides to any argument, life is complicated, and that policy Puritanism is unhelpful.

[legalalien]

Worth a read, council proposals for semi-pedestrianisation of / public realm improvements to Liverpool Grove in Walworth (at an eye watering cost of ?750k) - I imagine we might be seeing something similar in relation to the closed Dulwich junction in due course. Apart from the familiar situation where early stage, online design consultation has been hijacked by a large number of out of area respondents (this is what the documents say - they ended up having to do additional consultation to try and get some local input late in the piece, and that input was less positive), there are some detail issues that people might want to start thinking about sooner rather than later.

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?Id=7569

For those like me who don?t know what a porphyry sett is, it?s basically cobblestones to slow down cycles/ escooters/ mopeds. (Sound expensive and allegedly not a trip hazard, I remain unconvinced on that, but slowing down the cycles bombing down Calton would be a good thing? https://www.stonemarket.co.uk/product-cropped-porphyry-setts)

[legalalien]

On a related note, proposed updated parking and traffic protocol - the parking officers are a force for good and saving the planet!

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50028429

If you live near a school street, note

?18.Consideration will also be given in the short term to the feasibility of expanding the scope of school streets to also include the designation of some adjacent streets thus creating a safe zone for access to and from schools. Changes that result from this feasibility work will be communicated locally, within any existing schemes, and reported alongside any further changes in 2022 as highlighted by key strategies such as the Movement Plan Update.?

Appendix 1 seems to be the ultimate source of answers to ?can I park here??. Appendix 2 clarifies exemptions available including to LTN and school street restrictions (note special programme to tell teachers and health workers to get on their bikes). Updating the exemptions in time for the introduction of the revised Dulwich scheme seems to be a key driver for this revised document.

I love the fact that the equalities assessment identifies motorists as the ?key users? of the enforcement service. I doubt they see it that way! Note there are cross refs to the Dulwich Streetspace eqia in this doct.

[roywj]

I thought Hillsboro road was closed in the mornings for traffic to reduce pollution and increase safety for children going to school.

However, most mornings including this morning it is being used to maneuver lorries going in and out the school. Just saw two massive lorries, inside the yellow gates outside the school, engines on and reversing as kids are walking to school!

[Metallic]

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The thing is, though, that the ward councillors

> have little real power - even if they do choose to

> use it to represent their constituents rather than

> promote the party policy line.

>

> So getting a couple of opposition councillors on

> DV ward for example won?t make a difference in

> terms of changing policy if Labour still have an

> overall majority.

>

> I?m going to vote for someone other than Labour

> this time to register my disappointment in the

> current ward councillors. Haven?t decided who I

> will vote for yet, whoever seems the most locally

> based / not a career politician / acknowledges

> that there are at least two sides to any argument,

> life is complicated, and that policy Puritanism is

> unhelpful.

No but an able councillor from another party, can disrupt a council full of one party councillors. Greens and LDs have the same LTN/Climate policy as Labour so it has to be Conservatives. This was explained to me by a friend from Croxted who has almost had the full set of door knocking. Haven't had anyone at my door yet. On the leaflet I have seen from LDs they are promising everything to everyone.

[DulvilleRes]

For those of you thinking that a Conservative vote at the local election somehow doesn't count as a Conservative vote at a national level, you are most likely wrong.

Conservative MP and Johnson supporter Andrew Murrison in today's Guardian

'Law makers simply can?t be law breakers. The parliamentary Conservative party may hand Boris his P45 if the Met or Gray?s definitive report collar the PM. But I?m guessing the point of danger for Boris will be in May. Then we will probably have a perfect storm ? the widely predicted midterm council election hit'.

How the Conservatives perform in May could directly impact in the minds of many Conservative backbenchers the national agenda. I would argue a vote for the Conservatives is actually a vote against accountability. As a local person I am directly impacted and outraged by the rule breaking, and voting Tory locally could well be seen to condone it.

[heartblock]

Maybe the Labour Party should have considered that before implementing a Conservative party policy. I am also outraged by the sleaze and repulsiveness of those on the front bench, I'm also repulsed by local Government policy causing pollution and idling traffic outside of my home and building on Green Spaces in the poorest and most deprived area of Southwark, with the highest level of pollution and the lowest number of private gardens.

Sometimes one must choose which devil one lies with.

[legalalien]

Maybe, but I'm still going to vote on local issues. Voting on the basis of approval of Labour at a national level could equally be seen to condone the behaviour of the local councillors, and I'm anxious not to do that. I think there's a reasonable acceptance that some local seats are determined on the basis of controversial local issues, and it's not as if there are any conservative MPs locally who are going to misconstrue the message being sent by Dulwich electors and change their behaviour as a result.

[CPR Dave]

Boris Johnson will not be the Prime Minister by the time the local elections come round. He will be long gone.