Peckham Rye - how dodgy is it?

[cdonline]

As well as M&S, Jones & Higgins, Peckham used to be full of smaller shops that would put Lordship Lane to shame. We used to love the little Deli under the arches of the station and all the antique shops at the top of Rye Lane.

Not sure that the degeneration of North Peckham caused the deteriation of Rye Lane. Both were victims to the Thatcher recession, sorry economic miracle which swept away many small businesses that had been around for years.

[chuff]

Keef, what was opposite the library then? I seem to remember a knitting shop!

I worked in Rye Lane from 82-89 whilst at school/college at the weekends.

[Keef]

My memory may be playing tricks on me. Where was the big department store, I was sure it was down that end of the high street.

Even the indoor market used to be good.

[Huggers]

Ive lived in the Bellenden area for ten years and really like it and Ive lived all over London- Islington, Brixton, Pimlico and Kensington. When we lived in Kensington my husband was punched in the face in the street by a complete stranger, so stuff happens anywhere.

If by 'bohemian', you mean there are quite a few artists, actors, musicians and writers working and living here, then it is bohemian. They may not be very obvious swanning around in floaty clothes (too busy working) but there are studios opposite station on Rye lane, under the arches and on Bellenden road itself for a start. Poorish places attract artists and then their places of work get redeveloped for profit as happened horribly in Shepherds Walk in Islington, which became swishy lofts, so the more upmarket a place becomes, the less bohemian. I think the area is at a perfect point at the moment before it becomes something else.

The more familiar a place becomes to us, the safer, and we all have our 'borders of safety' maps in our heads.

..and I find Lewisham really scarey Louisa!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Can you just IMAGINE if any other 2 posters (select any 2 you like) said "we are SO right and the everyone else is so wrong" - how the likes of spangles30-going-on-12 would jump up and down about how smug that seemed. Obviously debate happens and people agree sometimes but to single yourself out like that...

I mean - I do agree that spangles and louisa are alike - oh yes... but beyond that

The Peckham debate has raged before and will rage again so.. whatever. Apart from some people sticking their nose up at a bit of fish and deciding that everyone is therefore effectively ciminal (e-coli ridden? not in the legal profession are you Louisa?) most people who either shop there or live there (imagine! living there???) seem to be ok with it

What an area was like in the past or will be like in the future is an interesting conversational pastime - but is subject to rose-tinted glasses or rampant speculation. What matters is here and now. And here and now seems fine to me. The high street isn't my destination of choice (too many people, not enough pavement) but threatened by it I'm not. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of any problems there (it's a relatively poor area and suffers the same social problems as most poor areas) but then I come from a poor area so it doesn't make me hold my nose and shudder the way it appears to with some people

[chuff]

keef said

My memory may be playing tricks on me. Where was the big department store, I was sure it was down that end of the high street.

Even the indoor market used to be good.

Oh that was jones and higgens, I was thinking about the shops on peckham hill street.

There were 2 indoor markets weren't there? the one by the station (long arcade type) and the newer one further up on the opposite side.

[Keef]

I don't always agree with the way Louisa says things, but in this thread, I think she has, for the most part, spoken from experience, and been rather honest and reasonable... In many ways Peckham is a shadow of it's former self, even I know that from memories of early childhood, and I have chatted to another couple of forumites about this as well.

Bellenden is nice, but for someone who used to enjoy Peckham in it's heyday, it probably isn't enough to make up for it!

I don't think people should always be so quick to bite Louisa's head off. She has flamed in the past, and some people have probably had a perfect right to have been upset (Asset), but she is just saying what I hear others say.

Spangles30 on the other hand just seems like someone who wants to be all controversial, so does it on an internet forum in the saftey of anonymity.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I have often stood up for Louisa against a tide of opinion - and will probably again. But to assert that the traders on Peckham Rye are selling e-coli ridden food without any basis in fact is a step too far in my opinion. And I'm not biting Louisa's head off.. just disagreeing with her in the same strong terms she uses

I can't claim to have been around in Peckham Rye's prime, but I've travelled enough to get the idea. And now it's a largely immigrant community. So be it.. it may not be chi-chi but it's pretty vibrant. It doesn't have the same end-of-the-line hopelessness of say Anerley

[charlie chuckles]

Is Peckham dodgier then Brixton?

[Bellenden Belle]

I accept that Louisa is speaking from experience and certainly the picture that Louisa and several other posters have painted here of Rye Lane in bygone days does amaze me, making me feel like the newbie that I am!

I guess like Spangles, Louisa suffers from having developed a reputation for always being upset about something or other. Whenever I read her posts the visual image I have is that of Lou Beale. Therefore I personally tend to take her posts with a pinch of salt.

But I do value Louisa's contribution. Like so many of our posters, she is a character and (rather like Rye Lane itself) brings colour and energy to the forum.

[blinder999]

Bellenden Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Whenever I read her

> posts the visual image I have is that of Lou

> Beale.

funny, I always get:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/03/12/lesdawson460.jpg

[chantelle]

this has been really helpful, btw, for real

[snoozequeen1]

Or you could try Nunhead. 13 minutes to Blackfriars from Nunhead station, you can always find a parking space by the station, low levels of crime, beautifully quiet and peaceful - just look on the map, we are insulated from London's traffic by two reservoirs and two cemeteries - the only part of London zones 1 and 2 that has no major road cutting though it.

And if you want a bit of class, try Frog on the Green on Consort Road. Don't think I will try to describe the tower of extravagant meringues, or the chocolate cake, I might get over excited.

[Bellenden Belle]

Oooh Snoozequeen - Frog on the Green is an absolute gem.

It has been such a saving grace upon moving from Bellenden, bereft of Petitou or Lucius & Richards, I have a number of times enjoyed their warmed chorizo and potato salad - simply fantastic.

[Spangles30]

SeanMacGabhann - you obviously have issues with anyone who has a strong opinion, perhaps because you tend to express your opinions in such an insipid way. You tend to always leap to the defence of the middle ground. Oh well, it takes all types on forums such as this.....

)))))sigh((((

You assert that "it's pretty vibrant" (Peckham). Perhaps you could give some examples. In my opinion (and I am entitled to it) Peckham, in its current state, is utterly revolting and unbecoming. It lacks charm, and has a High Street full of butchers selling, what appears to be, meat I wouldn't give to a dog. Do you buy your meat in said butchers? It is no coincidence that the area has amongst the highest gun crime in the UK.

Just saying it like it is. 'Like living in a little village'? PAH!

[Peckham native]

I've lived in Peckham for nearly 50 years, my mother still lives here and we go back at least 3 generations living in Peckham. I now live in the Ondine Road area which really is the same as East Dulwich except it's closer to East Dulwich Station!

Walking around the area in the evening it appears to me to be safer than say 10-15 years ago if only because there seems to be more people about.

Rye Lane is obviously very different from what it was. I had a Saturday job in Jones & Higgins shoe department - a wonderful old department store. We used to go to the Equator Eating House for cola floats! Choumert Road was a great market with Lou Jacobs the fishmongers, a great pet shop, huge newsagents (Parkins - I believe they retired after winning the pools)and various stalls selling everything from fruit & veg to flowers. I don't shop much down Rye Lane now but not through any fears for my safety.

[binker]

the "crime- ridden" area of Peckham that some people have alluded and is spoken of in the press tends to be north of Peckham High St... but that is slowly changing as well with the estates being rebuilt and creating a sense of community. I can certainly say i don't worry about gun crime as i leave my house on a daily basis!

When i lived in ED i worked from home and on a number of occasions had to call the police about people fighting & arguing in the street - on one occasion it turned out the whole street was actually under police surveillance. I should point out that this was a "nice" road off Northcross road as well! So far in 4 years nothing like that has happened to me in Bellenden road.

I quite like wandering along Rye Lane on a weekend with its tardis stores that seem to sell almost anything. Yes it has butchers that sell every part of any animal but if you are worried about the quality then don't buy it - i'm sure health and safety would have been around at some point for them to even be in business!

The shops on Bellenden are great and the staff normally friendly. Love the cafe for the hangover breakfast at the weekend & Ganapati is a gem!

[kristymac1]

Thanks Spangles30 I do have some knowledge of village life having been brought up in one in Northumberland, how about you?. However I am also well aware what people mean when they describe something as 'village-like' in innercity areas - as do you I'm sure. It's all relative after-all, compared to the Old Kent Road, Bellenden does err on the side of 'village'. It has a charm and a relaxed nature relative to it's surrounding areas, but please forgive my twee chitter chatter........

[SeanMacGabhann]

Spangles - you are of course entitled to your opinions... you just aren't entitled to "your" facts..

Don't always jump to say "I'm entitled..." - just say what you say, believe it and if people disagree they disagree. Otherwise you come across as needy

The meat you "wouldn't give to a dog" is not only sustaining a large population but also supplies many London restaurants. Meat stinks.. when you have so many supplier in one area you will notice it. Do I buy meat there? Sometimes but rarely... but only because it's as far from my flat as can be whilst living in this area. Would I buy meat there instead of supermarkets. Abso fuckin lutely

I'm not going to argue whether Peckham is amongst the highest gun crime areas in the Uk - I shall just ask where you are getting your information from - I'm interested in it

Is Peckham vibrant - well I compared it to Anerley. Do you dispute the comparison? I hesitate to define vibrant as you will no doubt accuse me of "googling it". Some of the best days and nights of my life have been in Peckham. For an insipid person I seem to be able to strike up conversation with strangers. They have invited me to parties. I was not shot. I don't know if that makes me insipid or my hosts... Either way, we let you down in your perception of Peckham

As I have said in previous emails, I make no case for Peckham being a Utopia. (oh look there is that middle ground you so despise. Most people might call it balance or even fact-based. you go with prejudice if it makes you feel better)

You pride yourself on saying "how it is" when in reality your life appears to resent not being able to say "how it is" more often. Instead of joining in any community based activity (that I am aware of) you use the local community forum to spread bile whilst simultaneously dismissing residents of an area who take pride in community feel

Why exactly do you feel the need to say I have problems with people with strong opinions? isn't the truth that I have a problem with you? But if that's true then you can't hide behind your pseudonym and cloak yourself around an easily-written "we".

You may be the soul of kindness in reality, but as presented on here you are a squalid little person with little to contribute to anyone's life, much less the community around you. I expect a mean-spirited retort - which is, as you will no doubt point out, you right. Go for it. But I ask you to pause and wonder why you provoke such a reaction. Apart from the fact that you seem to get off on it. Which is, again, you right. But if that's true the enjoy it and stop telling people off for doing it

yours

Mr Insipid

def: "without distinctive, interesting, or stimulating qualities; vapid: an insipid personality. "

Edited for some spelling mistakes. No guarantee I caught all of 'em

[MadWorld74]

When the sun shines and it's a saturday.......Peckham Rye can seem quite ...um alright.

Seeing as I trawl through the place twice a day communting from Blackfriars....I loathe the gaff.

But that's been covered in a previous thread.

[Spangles30]

Sean, somehow you don't sound like someone who hangs out in the hood. Ironically, Anerley or somewhere like Penge sounds like more your 'thang'.

Where do I get my facts? Various sources. The BBC has several articles detailing crime in the area. Also Lorraine King in the Guardian wrote:-

"..the area has never been salubrious. For more than a generation it has been linked to drugs, gangs and violent murders. It came to the nation's attention in 2000, when 10-year-old Damilola Taylor was stabbed to death on a stairwell of a block of flats on the notorious North Peckham Estate.

Just over six years on and the crumbling Sixties housing blocks may have made way for low-level flats and homes through a ?300m regeneration programme, but it appears that no amount of money can rid the area of crime.

As I walked around last week, I met a man who gave his name only as Mr X. He revealed a picture of young men boasting and showing off in an ever-spiralling game of 'I'm a bigger man than you are'. Much of it is centred on the drugs trade, offering the only employment in much of the area. In the end, guns settle disputes.

'In Peckham it's standard for someone going down the local shop to be carrying a strap [a gun],' he said. 'In the past five years guns have just been made more and more available; it's like going to order a takeaway now. It's ridiculous.'

DEFINITELY doesn't sound 'village-like' nor 'friendly' to me.

Oh and thanks for your comments regarding my 'character'on here - LOL - seems that being dubbed 'insipid' really rocked your boat.

[MadWorld74]

I'm liking your style, Spangles.

[SeanMacGabhann]

nah - it rocks your boat. Which is the genuinely sad thing

As for Lorraine King's article, it went on to say

"I thought it must be a south London trend, but after talking to my son and discovering that youths in north-west London's (aka North Wheezy) Stonebridge Estate have beef with those from Neasden, I was horrified to discover this is not just a London thing but nationwide. White and Asian boys are 'repping their ends too' - in fact, many gangs are mixed."

but that rather undermines your point doesn't it?

Again I have never said Peckham is salubrious (although to say as the article does that Peckham itself has never been salubrious contradicts some of the posts which have recorded it's decline) but I do like it.

[alice]

can this be true? east dulwich is great. peckham is great. Rye lane is great fun and alive - east dulwich too - does it have to be a competition?

but all this coded meat talk ...hmmm...

ever used a government website, scores on the doors? - try it. gives hygiene ratings for all foodbased establishments. and hey look there's cosy william rose with two stars and glam mum le chandelier with ooops 1 star. while over there in rye lane zara's tropical food store and Swaizie's Food store each have 5 stars - isn't that excellent news! bye all

[SeanMacGabhann]

t'aint no big deal Alice - I don't think many people are competing. But there does appear to be a weird thing going on where the very people (teeeny in number and perspective) who delight in dismissing the "middle-classes" of ED and their poncey ways, also disapprove of the great unwashed in Peckham

Where exactly meets such exacting standards we have yet to establish. Apart from maybe Lewisham. Bizarrely