Peckham Rye - how dodgy is it?

[clive3300]

snoozequeen1 is obsessed by race, when in fact there has been nothing racist at all in the simple, objective observations made that Rye Lane is mostly a very scruffy road with shops that for the most part, the members of this forum would not be interested in buying anything from.

If Rye Lane has become more black over the years, that is due to many factors, NONE of which is some sort of apartheid. Chill out for gods sake.

[HonaloochieB]

I used to work in David Bourne's menswear shop on Rye Lane thirty odd years ago. It was a pretty downmarket kind of place, nylon shirts for 50 pee, 20 pee underwear and 10 pee socks sort of deal. However I sa wone of the shirts that used to sell for ?2.50 in Chi-Chi Ra-Ra for twenty quid, it was the eatimable 'Shaft' brand and featured cartoons of Laurel And Hardy. What made working in the shop so great was having Reed's record shop round the corner. Ma Reed was as knowledgeable a person on matters rock and pop as one could meet. I spent a large proportion of my wages with her and she could always get hold of old original singles. I'd often hear a song start on the radio go along to Reeds and be back clutching the single in my eager mitt before it had ended.

A few years later I worked in Coles menswear just along the lane on the corner of Bournemouth Rd, a bit more upmarket than my previous employers but not as much fun.

Just thought I wax nostalgic for a while.

As you were.

[macroban]

Oh yes, Christine Reed, shops at Peckham and Forest Hill.

None of this modern day browsing stuff. All LPs filed behind the counter by record label and catalogue number.

Bought EKL 4005 there.

[snoozequeen1]

clive3300 Wrote:

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> Rye Lane

> is mostly a very scruffy road with shops that for

> the most part, the members of this forum would not

> be interested in buying anything from.

>

>Like Holland and Barrett, the large Boots, Dixons, Woolworths, Argos, Clarks, the Nationwide and the Halifax, which are found in every high street in the land, and on Rye Lane, but not on Lordship Lane? The unique and famous lingerie shop and the gifted Chinese doctor who can solve neck and back problems with 30 seconds manipulation?

I have never noticed rubbish as any worse outside these places than anywhere else in London.

Yet this busy shopping street is characterised as "dangerous" and "smelly" and "stinks", leading to the repeat chorus of "I wouldn't go there"?

Humbug.

There is only one "smelly" bit which is where fresh food and veg is sold as per any open air market, and at the end of the day it smells exactly like Berwick St, W1, and I know where I feel more comfortable walking down, given the choice of Rye Lane and the grubby emporia of Soho.

Lordship Lane can be extremely smelly by the end of the day and you can barely open a car door or negotiate the pavement in places for large bin bags, boxes and all kinds of rubbish left by shopkeepers. Pools of student vomit etc and drunks and druggies swerving into the road don't exactly add to the upbeat nature of the experience.

There is one key identifiable difference between the two places, and trying to direct racism through coded abuse looks just like that and nothing else.

[muffintop]

I can actually see the point that Snoozequeen is making, and I understand in part why she finds the fact that some of the people living in ED would find that particular food smells, meat smells etc. from other countries to be offensive enough to comment on i.e. quite a few people on here have commented that Rye Lane stinks and is dirty, I even know people personally who, when having to drive through Peckham day or night, lock their car doors and wind up the windows, whereas I would feel completely different, and would, as in any area of the world, just be cautious of my safety if alone late at night and be aware that crime happens everywhere, yup, even in ED. I do understand the mentality of people in this current climate of violence, but a lot of how people perceive things is kind of irrational and I am sorry to say sometimes bred through ignorance, woah, lots of black people so there must be lots of crime! Would you not take offence that someone found that your local food shops or markets smelly? I know I did when cooking xmas dinner and my greek neighbour complained about the stink the spouts were kicking up! and the fact that she had to close her windows against the stench! I was completely offended, up in arms and defensive! Peckham, from what I hear is vibrant, colourful and bouncy, with something for everyone, should they ever dare to venture down there! (as it seems)

[*Bob*]

Markets are dirty and they stink.

Rye Lane is a market.

Rye Lane is dirty and it stinks.

Can someone pass me my pointy white hat? - I have work to do.

[clive3300]

snoozequeen1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> >Like Holland and Barrett, the large Boots,

> Dixons, Woolworths, Argos, Clarks, the Nationwide

> and the Halifax, which are found in every high

> street in the land, and on Rye Lane, but not on

> Lordship Lane?

>

> I have never noticed rubbish as any worse outside

> these places than anywhere else in London.

>

> Yet this busy shopping street is characterised as

> "dangerous" and "smelly" and "stinks", leading to

> the repeat chorus of "I wouldn't go there"?

>

> Humbug.

>

are you blind or just insane? how do you quote "dangerous", "smelly" and "stinks" from my post when i said exactly none of these terms?

there is a fair bit more rubbish than the average London IMO, but its mostly the condition of the shop signs that looks scruffy. The sidewalks ARE dirtier, but maybe that endemic racism in southwark council? anyway 2 years ago in LL about 1/2 were also scruffy. Now relatively few, e.g Chener books look awful.

And yes it has those big high street stores, but (as you quite well know) they are overwelmingly outnumbered by stores selling stuff that few of us would buy. most of the shops are ethinic beauty salons, food shops and ?1 electronics etc shops. In fact from the bottom of Rye lane to peckham rye trainstation (a fair distance) i believe there are about zero "normal" highstreet shops.

[Bellenden Belle]

Snoozequeen - enough with the accusations of racism.

To say that Rye Lane is no dirtier than any other street - and in particular Lordship Lane - is simply not true. Far more littering takes place on Rye Lane - and yes, I go there nearly every day so I do know what I'm talking about.

There is a difference between the people on Rye Lane and Lordship Lane but it ain't colour snoozequeen. What I see is old-fashioned class difference. Rye Lane is a poor area - economically - and that poverty can be seen across any racial divide you perceive. There are plenty of white faces on Rye Lane - and many of them are as weary and downtrodden as the other groups whose plight you describe.

[muffintop]

"there is a fair bit more rubbish than the average London IMO," in Peckham Clive?, then you have obviously never visited Hackney or Shepherds Bush, or East London, but then again, they are also mainly populated by people of ethnic origin,so what do I know. Maybe the government needs to look at maintaining areas where they choose to place the majority of ethnic peoples to live and perhaps concentrate as much time in maintaining the area, making it a better place for children etc. educationally as well, because I know where I live, sometimes you can't get to work for tripping over people cleaning the streets, we have lovely, very well maintained parks etc. makes you wonder sometimes, though hope I haven't now scattered cat amongst pigeons.

By the way, I am of mixed racial heritage (afro-carribean and european)

[Brendan]

muffintop Wrote:

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> Maybe the government needs to

> look at maintaining areas where they choose to

> place the majority of ethnic peoples to live and

> perhaps concentrate as much time in maintaining

> the area...

Eh? So the government places people in specific areas according to their ethnic background?

They use to have something like that where I grew up.

[clive3300]

muffintop Wrote:

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> By the way, I am of mixed racial heritage

> (afro-carribean and european)

FFS this is has nothing to do with race/racism. Rye Lane IS scruffy. I lived in East London and Shepherds bush and it is scruffier than both.

There ARE relatively very few shops I would buy things from (although Cottage Chicken on Choumert and Rye is best chicken shop in the area).

There could be black, white, mixed race or even aliens living there and my opinion and those of most forumers here would be the same.

[muffintop]

What a coincidence then eh Clive! I randomly pick 2 areas I have lived in, and you have lived there too, I often saw live rats when I lived in Shepherds Bush it was that dirty (on the Edward Woods Estate, Queensdale Crescent), where did you live Clive? (Coming from the vast wasteland before they began building the new huge shopping centre). Shepherds Bush market was pretty filthy too, and Barking isn't that nice either, or the areas of Custom House.

[muffintop]

Saying its scruffy, I can deal with, wasn't mainly pointing just at you, but to go so many steps further and bascially say it is a crime ridden, unhygienic, e-coli ridden, smelly, decrepit cesspool of a place to live in isnt kind. Not saying you said all of those things personally, but thats what feedback I am getting.

[MadWorld74]

Why does Borough market with it's plethora of food stalls not smell like Peckham Rye/market/Lane?

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 9 years and the markets never smelt like they do down the Lane. Northcross Road can get a bit wiffy on a Saturday with it's fish and meat stalls. But it's a completely different type of whiff.

As Keef has said, Peckham Rye Lane needs a little TLC. Even when there's been a heavy downpour the streets still seem dirty.

I post this with no link to race what so ever.

[clive3300]

muffintop Wrote:

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> and bascially say it is a crime ridden,

> unhygienic, e-coli ridden, smelly, decrepit

> cesspool of a place to live in isnt kind. Not

> saying you said all of those things personally,

> but thats what feedback I am getting.

Of course I actually said NONE of those things and I dont think anyone else did either. In fact a page back I posted some posts SPECIFICALLY stating that it is NOT threatening. Fanatical "anti-racists" do their cause no good by actively pissing off every normal person they get in contact with.

Also in my experience "anti-racists" only hate any whiff of racism when directed at their specific ethnic group, but invariably arnt in the least bit worried about actively hating every other indigenous or immigrant group.

However I dont need to defend my views to you. My view (as stated) is it I dont think its threatening, but mostly it isnt particularly nice, and basically anyone with a modicum of sense would agree. If your only viewpoint is a comparison with some godawful council estate, then your viewpoint is to skewed to really be of much assistance to Chantelle

[clive3300]

muffintop Wrote:

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> What a coincidence then eh Clive! I randomly pick

> 2 areas I have lived in, and you have lived there

> too

Lived near the Hammersmith and city tube for a few months, and in Plaistow for 6months. Take your suggestion of lying and shove it.

[snoozequeen1]

clive3300 Wrote:

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> And yes it has those big high street stores, but

> (as you quite well know) they are overwelmingly

> outnumbered by stores selling stuff that few of us

> would buy. most of the shops are ethinic beauty

> salons, food shops and ?1 electronics etc shops.

> In fact from the bottom of Rye lane to peckham rye

> trainstation (a fair distance) i believe there are

> about zero "normal" highstreet shops.

Clive, this is why what you are saying is racist.

You tell us that "normal" stores are "overwhelmingly outnumbered" by "ethnic beauty salons" that few of "us" would buy things in.

"Us" ?

So the people who live behind, opposite and down the road from me, being Commonwealth citizens of Afro-Caribbean descent, in one case, a stalwart of the Church of England, and in another, a magistrate, these two families both living here since the 1960s - these people are not "us".

The place where they get their hair done is not "normal" and what you see when you look at Rye Lane is not Boots, Argos, Dixons, Holland and Barrett, Clarks, Superdrug, Carpetland etc, but somewhere that overwhelms you with its otherness. Because there are a few hairdressers that do black hair.

Uh huh.

[MadWorld74]

play nicely children....

[clive3300]

Us = everyone else who has commented in this thread, except you really. Other people have opinions you know.

Essentially almost all people said they wouldnt buy things from Rye Lane. You said its because we are all racists. I, personally believe people can make their own decisions based on personal choice.

The vast majority of shops there specifically cater for african customers. You, youself have indicated that people in east dulwich are "all" white (the great dividing line). So why MUST these citizens buy from these shops.

In fact why arent all shop owners in Rye Lane not racists for not making shops that white middleclass people would choose to shop at? SUrely this evil must be stamped out immediately.

OMG I cant believe I am wasting my time on this worthless discussion. Give me a white pointy hat too please.

[Spangles30]

I think both Clive and Snooze have a point. However, the latter poster is being a tad politically correct, which I find annoying. Having said that said poster is RIGHT in saying that the 'whiteness' of ED, as opposed to the 'blackness' of Peckham is a fact. I hate people pussyfooting around issues when they are facts.

I am white and ostensibly middle class, and personally find the Peckham shops far more useful and cheaper than their ED counterparts. However, I would not want to live in Peckham, given a choice between there and ED. I have already explained my reasons for making the latter assertion.

[Keef]

I too see where Snoozequeen is coming from, but I find the racist thing incorrect.

Clive wrote

> And yes it has those big high street stores, but

> (as you quite well know) they are overwelmingly

> outnumbered by stores selling stuff that few of us

> would buy.

NOTE THERE IS A FULL STOP AT THE END OF THAT. This makes no mention or even alludes to anything about race.

He then goes on to say;

> most of the shops are ethinic beauty

> salons, food shops and ?1 electronics etc shops.

> In fact from the bottom of Rye lane to peckham rye

> trainstation (a fair distance) i believe there are

> about zero "normal" highstreet shops.

You paraphrased that as "You tell us that "normal" stores are "overwhelmingly outnumbered" by "ethnic beauty salons" that few of "us" would buy things in"., which is in no way a fair reflection of what he said!

Clive came on here and said Peckham was a good place to live, as did I, but then the conversation somehow gets dragged in to this odd racial arguement, which has nothing to do with anything!

Peckham as a whole, the bellenden area in particular, is a good place to live, and there are plenty of places to buy things / eat or drink out. Rye Lane is a crappy High Street. It is no more dangerous than anywhere else, and you will not be offered drugs randomly as you walk down the road, but the fact remains that it is a bit naff. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT COLOUR ANYONE IS. It has plenty do do with the fact that it is a low income shopping area to be brutally honest. People that live in Peckham but who have a bit more to spend will basically go elsewhere to do their shopping. That is the truth.

[MelbourneGr]

Sorry but I have to give my two pennies worth...

I would say Lordship Lane can get just as messy as Peckham Rye - on a proportional level Peckham Rye probably does well for the volume of people that pass through it and the nature of the shops on the road. So no one can say they don't go Peckham Rye because it smells or its dirty - it just makes me wonder what the real reason is. I've walked home many a time from Peckham Rye station to East Dulwich, late at night and have had no problems at all - if anything all I notice is the superior houses Peckham has in comparison to East Dulwich.

Derogatory terms - blatantly used on this forum, especially when describing my beloved Peckham Rye. I'm not saying anyone is doing it in a racist way but for some people on this board, it's quite simply scratching the surface of deep inner beliefs. Take Clive for example - he goes off on one when challenged, clearly annoyed by this, the man is probably getting into a lather in front of his LCD PC screen. I usually link that kind of behaviour to bratty kids...

[Brendan]

Well, isn?t this all nice and cosy.

[Administrator]

And relax. As they say in English football "play the ball, not the man" and I am asking people to do the same, discuss the topic and not each other. Do not deliberately antagonise other users.

[Keef]

MelbourneGr Wrote:

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> I've walked home many a time from Peckham Rye station to East Dulwich, late at night and have had no problems at all - if anything all I notice is the superior houses Peckham has in comparison to East Dulwich.

Surely no one would argue with that point, Peckham, Camberwell, Forest Hill, Sydenham and Crystal Palace all have nicer houses than East Dulwich!

Also, Lordship Lane isn't perfect, and parts of it (near HSBC) stink at times for reasons I try not to think about. Sydenham High Street (near me) is horridly crowded to walk down, and has far too many rubbish shops. I think people are taking this as a personal assult if they live in Peckham. It's not, it's just a fact that in the last decade or so, Rye Lane has gone down hill and is now rough and, in parts, smells a bit grim.