Homophobia compared with racism

[James]

She's sleeping her way to the top ;-)

[Brendan]

Better than sleeping your way to the middle.

[clive3300]

Ms B Wrote:

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> For instance,

> one of the things I like about working for an

> investment bank (apart from the mad adrenaline

> rushes) is that no one really cares about the

> colour of your skin, your sexual preferences or

> who your parents are - it's results that count.

Quite right! :). I am sure some of my coworkers are aliens - no one cares.

[Moos]

Thank God society is so far ahead now with regards to gender equality ";-)"

[citizenED]

Note to self: next time I want to slander someone, just place a winky smiley at the end and all will be fine. Or call myself "Bob" and guarantee I'm being ironic.

James, fella - Are you really sure you wanted to make that last comment about a woman you don't know, throwaway sexist/homophobic/racist comments being not much to your liking?

[mightyroar]

hear hear Moos and citizenEd.

James you are sending some seriously mixed messages. I am starting to think that you're only here to wind us all up.

[jumpinjackflash]

citizenED Wrote:

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> Note to self: next time I want to slander someone,

> just place a winky smiley at the end and all will

> be fine. Or call myself "Bob" and guarantee I'm

> being ironic.

>

> James, fella - Are you really sure you wanted to

> make that last comment about a woman you don't

> know, throwaway sexist/homophobic/racist comments

> being not much to your liking?

spot on Citizen ED!

[clive3300]

SteveT Wrote:

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> Ms B wrote:one of the things I like about working

> for an investment bank

>

> Does this mean you are naturally quick at

> figures?

>

> Did you come top of the class in maths?

>

> Are you a very calculating female;-)

I guess one could ask, what this line of questions was in aid of?

[James]

Um, that comment was a JOKE.

(Hello, McFly!!???)

Oh dear...

[KalamityKel]

Time and place for it I fink my dear james... time and place :p

[James]

Sorry mum. I will apply for permission next time

[citizenED]

Come, James. A joke? Are you sure? Do you know Ms B? You basically implied that she was shagging her colleagues to get on in her line of work. Very noble. How do you know that the guys who shouted at you across the platform two years ago where not calling you and your chum a f****t "for a joke". Well, obviously, they weren't which makes your comment even stranger, considering that they were evidently unreconstructed youth out to cause bother on the street and you are a thoughtful man conversting on a friendly internet forum.

[TillieTrotter]

I'm afraid I have to side with Mr ED here James. I said "ouch" when I saw your comment this morning but was too busy to put my thoughts down. I know you're going to feel ganged up on but I think if you gave it a little thought you would see that you have committed a big faux pas.

[Guest]

I shall refrain from punishing James given that his credibility on all gender/discrimination matters is now utterly and forever f*cked.

To be serious, though, does anyone sleep their way to the top these days? Of course people have relationships with colleagues; kind of inevitable given the amount of time we all spend there. But as a calculated act? Usually ends with a very unhappy team (favouritism) and one or both out of work (sexual harrassment/dismissal after lover leaves and individual found to be incompetent).

Sorry, Moos, but I also think that anyone who still whinges that gender discrimination is stopping them from progressing in a mainstream job in this country is just making excuses - sure, other barriers are still there (try age) but even in my lifetime things have changed hugely. Why not be grateful for what women fought for over the last century or so and do something to justify their faith that it was worthwhile?

[indiepanda]

I think some degree of sex discrimination exists - but I don't think it really explains all of the gap between average pay for men and women. Lots of women choose to put their career on hold and make motherhood their first priority, and if you do that it's inevitable that you will miss out on some promotional opportunities.

Not convinced that is necessarily a bad thing to be honest - beyond a certain point more money won't actually make you happier, and if it means more responsibility and so less time with family, then the promotion may make you less happy.

As a single woman, I have to admit, I look at the partners where I work and think the sacrifices they have to make for work don't seem worth the money. There are a lot more male partners than female - but I don't think that is evidence of discrimination, just in general more men are willing to make more sacrifices for their career.

(Obviously a bit of a generalisation - I know some men do take on more of childcare and that some women are very ambitious, but I think the generalisation isn't without some grounds.)

[pk]

Ms B Wrote:

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> Sorry, Moos, but I also think that anyone who

> still whinges that gender discrimination is

> stopping them from progressing in a mainstream job

> in this country is just making excuses

i don't agree and i am a man

[Guest]

Based on what I see I don't agree that having children means women necessarily lose ground in the workplace. Each time I've taken time out of work (not child-related) I was surprised to find it seemed to count in my favour because I had used it to do something important to me (or so I told them, but that's another matter). Choosing for yourself to deprioritise your career to focus more on family life is another thing, of course. There is always a choice - if you spend time at home with your family because you believe going straight back to work is unfair to them, that's a choice based on your own values and meaning structure; so is going straight back to work because you don't want to waste the education you were lucky enough to get or rely on benefits. (Largely a middle class preoccupation, I've always felt - working classes traditionally didn't have the luxury of choice; upper classes didn't expect to raise their own children anyway.)

And if you think you're being paid less than a man who does the same job, I'd say do something about it.

[SteveT]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ms B wrote:one of the things I like about working

> for an investment bank

>

> Does this mean you are naturally quick at

> figures?

>

> Did you come top of the class in maths?

>

> Are you a very calculating female

Clive3300 wrote:

I guess one could ask, what this line of questions was in aid of?

Yes you certainly can...............

When Ms B wrote that she worked for an investment bank it made me wonder if she was like another investment banker I knew who could calculate a column of figures, almost at a glance.

PS He admitted he was a bankrupted fraudster.

The reason for this line of questioning? I am always interested in peoples talents.

Sorry if I offended you Ms B, heaven forfend it was never my intention to injure this most delicate of flowers.

[Moos]

Ms B Wrote:

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> Sorry, Moos, but I also think that anyone who

> still whinges that gender discrimination is

> stopping them from progressing in a mainstream job

> in this country is just making excuses - sure,

> other barriers are still there (try age) but even

> in my lifetime things have changed hugely. Why not

> be grateful for what women fought for over the

> last century or so and do something to justify

> their faith that it was worthwhile?

My post was a reference to James' response to you ref 'sleeping your way to the top' and also to another post where he said 'But just as society is a bit further ahead at tackling sexism than it is racism, so it's a bit further ahead tackling racism than homophobia'. I don't think anyone would accuse a man of sleeping his way to the top.

Nice to be called an ungrateful whinger as a result. Thank you.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Ms B and Moos arguing... this is just.. WRONG!

[Keef]

I considered sleeping my way to the top, but it looks like they have to do some work up there, so I decided I'm better off just sleeping down here.

[clive3300]

Ms B Wrote:

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> I shall refrain from punishing James given that

> his credibility on all gender/discrimination

> matters is now utterly and forever f*cked.

Its funny how most people who feel discriminated against are happy to discriminate against others without any worry of hypocracy (not saying that James is one of these necessarily). Its a very irritating habit, but very human.

Regarding discrimination at work - I believe this happens very little these days - far less than people believe. Its very easy to just blame lack of success on it, when overwelmingly its so obvious why most people dont get ahead. Invariably its because people arent some of all: smart, hard working, networking, enthusiastic, clearly adding value and looking and sounding managerial. Even then with most people like this at top firms even people like this get overlooked.

[lozzyloz]

I work for myself, so sleeping my way to the top can be very satisfying:))

[mightyroar]

'looking and sounding managerial'

Brilliant. I'm going to add that one to my CV should I ever get off my middle class arse and stop deprioritising my career and attempt to get back in the level playing field which is the mainstream work-place these days.

Noone in that work place wasting the education they were lucky enough to get I should hope?

No? Great

[clive3300]

mightyroar Wrote:

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> 'looking and sounding managerial'

>

> Brilliant. I'm going to add that one to my CV

> should I ever get off my middle class arse and

> stop deprioritising my career and attempt to get

> back in the level playing field which is the

> mainstream work-place these days.

>

> Noone in that work place wasting the education

> they were lucky enough to get I should hope?

> No? Great

Wow - I reread this twice and I am still not sure of what you are trying to say. Too much wit for me - sorry. If you were trying to write some management double talk, you left off 'paradigm', 'going forward' amongst others.

Regarding education - its a sine qua non for entry level into most professions, generally irrelevant thereafter in light of performance and perceived value (in my experience).