Bringing up your child with no religion in ED - what has your experience been?

[sidmeister]

At the very outset, I would like to make it as clear as is humanly possible that I do not wish in any way to insult anybody else's religious beliefs, and that I apologise if I have caused any offence.:-)

Neither my wife nor I is particularly keen on organised religion, and are planning on bringing our soon-to-arrive baby up without adherence to any particular faith (we believe morality and ethics do not necessarily have to be tied to faith).

I'd be very interested in hearing from other parents with no strong religious beliefs who are attempting to bring their children up in ED outside the tenets of organised religion. I feel it shouldn't be too hard when the child is really small, but:

* Did this influence your choice of school?

* Have your children had trouble fitting in school because of a lack of religious belief?

* Have demands been placed on them to pigeon-hole themselves into a religious denomination of some sort?

* How have you handled awkward questions around religious festivals etc? (We do celebrate Christmas ourselves though neither of us is Christian ? it's just nice to have a bright few days all about sharing, giving, and love in the darkest days of winter. Also, I'm a sucker for Christmas trees).

[boswell]

I hope this doesn't come across as rude as it's not meant to be, but are you from the UK? The reason I ask is because my experience is that it's more unusual to be religious than not. I've lived in ED all my life and throughout my school life those with an obvious religious affiliation (ie actually living by religious beliefs/attending a place of worship regularly) were in the definite minority rather than the majority, so except for the choice of school issue I wouldn't have thought any of the other things you raise would be a problem at all.

[Pickle]

We are not a religious family, and have not once found it to be an issue. Children are in a non faith state school, they learn a little bit about all religions, festivals and celebrations, but there's no way a lack of religious belief would cause them problems at school.

As an adult I've not once in my life felt socially excluded due to lack of religion. It's pretty common, is it not?

[sidmeister]

@boswell, yes, I moved here several years ago upon reaching adulthood; I forgot to mention it. I found that the UK was an incredibly easy place to be irreligious in as an adult (especially when compared to some of the religious ****wittery that abounds where I grew up). But what worried me about irreligiosity was some newspaper articles I've read about RE being compulsory in all stare schools.

But the very fact that your first question was whether I was from outside the UK reassures me no end. It's clearly not going to be an issue! :-D

[buggie]

You shouldn't muddle RE up with children being marginalised if they don't have a religion!

RE (in my opinion) broadens children's understanding of the multi-cultural world we're in & am unsure how

this could be negative to any child - religious or not.

[simonethebeaver]

We are not religious and parking the spectre of being forced to use one of the local Catholic schools aside it's not something that causes any problem. Our two year old has been learning about Eid celebrations at nursery recently. We are going to take her to a crib service at Christmas so she can learn about the Christmas story. But it's all cultural, and the culture of religion is a useful and relevant thing to know, for tolerance, to understand lots of literature, for travel etc. But faith schools are something else...

[Otta]

Our four year okd has just started a CofE school with a head that pushes it a bit. We don't want it forced down our daughter's throat and it does worry us, but all her friends from preschool have ended up there and we felt that was more important than sending her to a non faith school.

[oimissus]

religion isn't particularly important here, unlike in, say, the US, but unlike the US we do have a state religion (Church of England). That does mean that all primaries, even if they are not CofE, are meant to have, for instance, 'broadly Christian' assemblies, which doesn't really mean anything much, but I think some parents are surprised at this, forgetting that, as a country, we do 'have' a religion. They might do a Nativity play at Christmas. And you can request that your child not participate in these things, but they seem harmless enough. Whether you believe in Christianity or not, there's no getting away from the fact that it has massively influenced our history and culture, so it's worth your children knowing the basics (as well as the basics of the other major religions as well).

I'm a Catholic who attended a (private) Cof E school for 10 years, along with Jewish, Hindu and Muslims girls, and I don't know anyone who converted or who felt any undue pressure to change their beliefs because of it.

[Curmudgeon]

Small children are natural believers and will come home talking about God, I've always just responded with a "well some people believe that" and just answer any questions that come up.

We are atheists but believe our children should make up their own minds, after all how can they reject a belief system they know nothing about, hence they have always taken part in nativities which is the most religious aspect of their Community school.

I am a strong supporter of compulsory RE in schools, it is about understanding the major religions of the world and our history, art and world politics etc

Also if you don't teach them about organised religion how can they choose to reject it?

[Pugwash]

My husband is a Catholic and I have no religion but if pushed would say I am a Humanist. Our youngest daughter was christened as Catholic and attended St. Anthony's RC School. She did not feel comfortable going to church regularly and we gave her the choice of going to a RC secondary school or a state school. The nearest RC secondary (Sacred Heart) had a poor educational record in those days and therefore the next nearest schools were Streatham Common or Croydon. In the end she went to Sydenham Girls.

Religion was something discussed in our home but as we had a wide circle of friends from different cultures -different aspects of religion were included.

RE in schools is about teaching tolerance to those who have other or no faiths and sets about dispelling myths and prejudices.

[Carbonara]

RE IS compulsory in state schools, but it is education ABOUT religion, not encouraging them to be religious.

An act of daily worship is also required in state schools, but it is widely flouted.

As you are not a member of any religious congregation your chances of getting a place in a faith school in ED are nil while in many areas your choice of community primaries is quite high.. If you move to some rural area you might find that all the nearby village schools are CoE, with various degrees of religious practice from negligible to very active.

[sidmeister]

Wow, thanks everybody, that was very interesting indeed. As a new parent (who was brought up in a religion himself), it's very useful to receive tips from all of you who are bringing kids up in religion.

Thanks for the clarifications re. RE. I didn't go to school in the UK, and had no idea what it involved. I didn't realise it was ABOUT religion, which I agree is a v.g. thing

[sunbob]

Carbonara Wrote:

--------

> As you are not a member of any religious

> congregation your chances of getting a place in a

> faith school in ED are nil

St Johns and St Clements CofE takes about half and half church places and local/distance based places. The 2 catholic schools, Cabrini and St Anthony's, take (as I understand it) Catholics until they are all accounted for then give distance places if there are any left. I think Cabrini has had some available in the last couple of years.

[happy gardener]

Can i just ask, just out of interest.. If you do not have a religeon, what do you believe? Do you brlieve in god?

[Saffron]

Religion is not the same as faith or belief. People without religion can hold any of a variety of beliefs, including believing in god(s), agnosticism (classic or modern), or atheism.

Religion is generally used to refer to the organised collection of beliefs and behaviours, adherence to which defines that religious group. You can hold spiritual beliefs without being religious, and you can be religious and still be agnostic.

[happy gardener]

If you do not believe in god, where do you think you came from? Im just interested as a strong believer in god, how do you think this world came into existance? How everything has a function in this world and universe, how the earth circulataes around the sun and moon giving us day and night, how we have trees growing giving us beautiful varieties of fruit and veg and other sources of food. How the rain falls, watering the earth giving livestock. How our bodies have been created in such a perfect way, we reproduce... Do you think all that happened without a creator? Can a house be built by itself without a builder? Can writing appear on paper without writing?

I believe that there is one god who has created the universe and all that it contains.

'Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

After that, at length ye will die

Again, on the Day of Judgment, will ye be raised up.

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And We have made, above you, seven tracts; and We are never unmindful of (our) Creation.

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And We send down water from the sky according to (due) measure, and We cause it to soak in the soil; and We certainly are able to drain it off (with ease).

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With it We grow for you gardens of date-palms and vines: in them have ye abundant fruits: and of them ye eat (and have enjoyment),-

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Also a tree springing out of Mount Sinai, which produces oil, and relish for those who use it for food.

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And in cattle (too) ye have an instructive example: from within their bodies We produce (milk) for you to drink; there are, in them, (besides), numerous (other) benefits for you; and of their (meat) ye eat;

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An on them, as well as in slips, ye side.

Quran surah mumenoon

[simonethebeaver]

Science is a wonderful thing. But people have found great comfort in faith for millennia and as long as they respect my right not to believe in any supernatural beings, I will respect their faith. I wish there wasn't state funding however for schools that choose only or mostly to take on the basis of religion. 60-120 of the nearest school places are lost to my children this way.

[happy gardener]

Yes science is a wonderful thing and its amazing how science is only discovering things that was written in the quran over 1300 years ago

Like the developement of the fetus for eg

[sidmeister]

Happy Gardener, I am honestly not interested in the slightest in entering into an argument over my faith or lack thereof. I respect your right to believe in whatever it is you believe in, as long as you allow me to *not* believe whatever I wish to *not* believe in. Sadly, at this point, I think this thread has outlived its usefuleness, but I'm glad I received all of the interesting and thought provoking responses.:-)

[happy gardener]

I wasnt trying to have an argument, i was just interested in what views people had on how they were created, me beleiving we were created by god.. Of course everyone has free will to wat they believe

[Family Room Moderator]

Please stay on topic. Happy Gardener, you are welcome to ask that question, but please do so in a separate thread. Many thanks.

[devsdev]

I like that reminder Curmudgeon, that children are natural believers - I am certainly an atheist and so is my husband. We don't intend to bring up our children with any specific religion, but there are cultural reasons for having religion in our lives on some instances. But as a child - even as a teenager until about 14-15, I remember praying to a notion of a "god" and being concerned about my parents not being too overly religious - another exploratory phase I presume. My parents dealt with it similarly - just being open about it. I need to remember to do that!

Except one side of our family is very Christian and I imagine there's going to be a lot of questions raised by the young cousins...anyone have any books they could recommend that would prepare me for those sorts of conversations?

[canela]

I think some children are natural believers....and some adults also. I was raised by a committed atheist and had no religious education at home at all. Yet of my own accord I read the books of the main religions and tried out different things like prayer, meditation, Quakers etc. I remember very frustrating conversations with my mother who would respond to all my "why?" questions with books about science - and that is not what I meant at all. She still finds it difficult to see my spiritual side as anything beyond an adolescent "stage" that I never grew out of - so we just don't talk about it much really.

I suppose just as church goers have to be prepared that their kids might not follow their beliefs, so might atheists....

[uncleglen]

As someone once said-'if god didn't exist, man would soon invent (him?)' to try and explain our existence I expect. I have experience of working in faith schools and many of the students are brainwashed into believing that having a religion is 'good' and not having one is 'bad'. Also many of the students were homophobic and vehemently defended 'the creation'. They obviously liked being in 'the club' but did not display many 'christian' traits like tolerance.

[simonethebeaver]

I went through a religious period in my teens, and certainly would have said as a child that I believed in God. My (non-believing) parents sent me to Sunday School. I'm rather glad I had that experience as it was interesting to be part of a faith community. But I escaped any form of guilt and it was very happy clappy religion. I mostly enjoyed the singing.