southwark council service charge

[Errol]

Fredbear: Be careful with the refund. The next time you are on the phone, raise the issue of a WRITE BACK , ask for Elizabeth Hemsworth and say you want to discuss the matter.

Its possible you won't see any money as such. Just a reduction on some outstanding some.

[Errol]

fabfor Wrote:

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> Buddug wrote:However, I have to say I am

> absolutely - and I mean absolutely - gobsmacked

> that Southwark contacted your mortgage lender

> after you queried the extortionate charge.

>

> Thanks for sympathising Buddug. The effect of

> their action is very damaging, actually, which is

> why I use the word malicious. I'm nearing

> retirement and they've destroyed my prepared means

> of financing long planned improvements. But I'm

> still fighting...

**************************

How it works is as follows:

Collections are given the figures for the pertinent year and the pertinent work.

They send out letters of demand, reminders, etc.

If they get nowhere, they contact your MCO, if you have one, and if you are a LEASEHOLDER.

They then contact you again.....after a while they REFER the matter to the Enforcement Team.

The head of that Team is an individual called Daniel Panormo.

He heads up a team which is constructed as follows:

Daniel Panormo, Manager.

Ezania Bennett: Senior Enforcement Officer.

John Egboeche: Enforcement Officer.

Harsha Kara, Enforcement Officer

The Collections Officers "refer" the matter to the Enforcement Officers, who do some small computations, usually for interest, and pass the matter to the Admin staff, who draw up claim forms which are sent to the County Court, usually the Money Claims Centre in Northampton.

They accompany these claims with a Cheque, and charge that onto what they are claiming in the first place.

The Court then "Issues" the Claim. The claim is deemed issued and has a date on it, before which no Judgment may be requested against the Defendant party, i.e, YOU ;)

Payments can be made at any given time, that is to say, you can make a deductible payment off what you owe at any given time AND you can make the payment at any part of the process.

What the Enforcement Team are NOT obliged to do is offer you a payment deal. The rationale for that is you COULD have had a payment deal, installment plan etc, at Collections stage.

Judgments are requested where no significant payment has been made on the issued claim, eg if they had a claim issued for ?500-00 and you paid ?100 in the intervening period, they will request Judgment against you for ?400 PLUS Interest accruing in the intervening period.

By intervening period, I mean from one day after the date on the Claim to the date the Judgment is in fact requested. The rate is 5% over the Base Rate as set by NatWest Bank , which is 0.5% at present, i.e. 5.5%

Pay close attention to this: Suppose you are billed for the first two quarters of 2014-2015, just for example. ?250 for Q1 and ?250 for Q2, total of ?500-00. That will be passed to Enforcement who will add interest, example ?20, and a Court Fee, example ?70.

The day before the go to request a Judgment against you, you ring up and quote your PRN, and say "What's the damage, I want to avoid a CCJ".

They MUST say: "you owe, on this matter, the sum of ?590".

Suppose you reply...I am happy to pay the Invoice {500} but I am not paying a Court Fee and Interst....they MAY request a Judgment for that sum but in practice they do not. IF they do request the Judgment, they MUST NOT charge you any extra interest.

The interest is ONLY EVER PAYABLE on the sum which is owed to begin with, i.e., the ?500.

In practice what you will get is a letter-of-demand for the CF and I.

However, I digress. Suppose you never come up with any money, they wil request, and get a Judgment.

Now what do you do next......

[Errol]

.......what happens next is you get a letter from the Court with a copy if Judgment.

If you pay that some within 30 days of the date of Judgment, you are entitled to have the matter marked as canceled.

If you pay after that, all you are entitled to is having the debt marked as SATISFIED.

I can talk more about that to anyone who wants to know.

Suppose you have no money....and make no payment....the next step is a Section 146 Notice of Forfeiture which the Council will send out to you NO SOONER than one month after the date of Judgment BUT! if you reduce the debt to ?350 or less before that time comes around THEY CANNOT CHARGE YOU the extra ?260 or whatever it is.

BE AWARE OF THAT.

For example, if on 1st of May you get a judgment for ?1000 all in, and you bang off ?700 within one month, they CANNOT do s S146 on you.

BUT you must make sure that you INSIST the ?700 you send in goes against the invoices and the relevant period in question.

I can go on at length about this, I use to work for these people, please feel free to ask.

[fabfor]

Terrifying but informative. Thank you very much, Erroll.

[Errol]

No problem. Bounce questions off me, I can help with inquiries about the procedure and the law and southwarks attitude and approach towards same.

Southwarks collection office basically works like a big debt collection agency. They have their names up on a wall and how much $$$$ they took in that month.

Chris Flynn is responsible for this.He is The man behind it. Believe me, you're just so many deadbeats as far as collections, repairs and enforcement are concerned.

[Errol]

buddug Wrote:

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> Yeah, talk to me about Martin Green! But he's gone

> into hiding. I expected more from the lovely Chris

> Flynn. Never mind, eh? And where is Gerri Scott in

> all this? Why hasn't she addressed our concerns

> here? I've sent her the link to this thread. But

> no reply.

>

> And, by the way, a real big-up to admin here,

> allowing us to discuss this problem that we're

> having with Southwark Council. No, it's not a

> specifically East Dulwich issue, yet it is

> affecting many of us in East Dulwich/Peckham

> borders. So big thank you, admin!

********************************

Martin Green is the Head of Home Ownership.

Chris Flynn is the head of Collections.

Paul Halpin is the head of both Daniel Panormo and.Chris Flynn.

Daniel Panormo is the Enforcement Manager and as such is parallel to Flynn. What Flynn and.his team fail to collect is passed to Enforcement.

Imagine The Enforcement and Collections teams as being akin to a pair of railway tracks Running parallel but separately. They are related but separate units.

Enforcement are down in Tooley Street.

Green delegates hugely to Halpin and Flynn.

[Errol]

Gerri Scott is Martin Greens boss.You aren't going to hear from her.

Right....as of now, Flynn is grooming one of his collections dogs for a management position in the Enforcement Team.

Have a think about that.

[fabfor]

Reminds me of the old joke: just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you!

Btw, they imposed a "fine" of ?90.00 on me a few years ago when I was disputing their charges; no legal notices etc., just a fine after threats. Any chance of recovering that?

[Errol]

fabfor Wrote:

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> Reminds me of the old joke: just because you're

> paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get

> you!

> Btw, they imposed a "fine" of ?90.00 on me a few

> years ago when I was disputing their charges; no

> legal notices etc., just a fine after threats. Any

> chance of recovering that?

Have you got the letter, or even the context??? Did they specifically use the word 'fine' just FYI, Please have a look at the letter and get back to me. Thanks and good luck.

[Charles Notice]

As an ex employee is it really as bad as you indicate.

How much do Leaseholders not know?

[Errol]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> As an ex employee is it really as bad as you

> indicate.

>

> How much do Leaseholders not know?

That depends on individual leaseholders.

You did sign a lease, or, in rare cases, some people would have signed a freehold agreement.

Thats the first thing. You signed it, nobody put a gun to your head, thats how the council looks at it.

How much or how little you do or don't know after that depends on how well you did or did not read the lease and how many times you have been dragged through the wringer by the Council.

The best I can do for you is answer individual questions, so pick a scenario, bounce it off me, and I will try to help.

Take this as your general, opening premise: you are just a number, so far as the Council is concerned.

[Errol]

buddug Wrote:

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> As Fabfor says: 'let's make sure the adjusted

> charge isn't still too high.' Fabfor, this is

> exactly what I fear. But we have to keep fighting.

> However, I have to say I am absolutely - and I

> mean absolutely - gobsmacked that Southwark

> contacted your mortgage lender after you queried

> the extortionate charge. That is one for the

> Ombudsman, surely (unfortunately you'd have to go

> through Southwark's complaints system first

> though, but if you do, always copy in Gerri Scott

> to every email).

>

> And Peckham Rose, you're bang on the nail

> regarding reclaiming interest on what they're

> sitting on.

>

> There's something very 'nasty in the woodshed'

> regarding Southwark's freeholdings and use of

> 'contractors' for both leaseholders and council

> tenants. I do wish the local - and national -

> press would investigate them. The Indy article

> mentioned Southwark in the 'backhander' article.

> Something I've always suspected.

>

> However, from my experience, there are now those

> in Southwark Council - Gerri Scott and Christian

> O'Mahoney, and for council tenants Cheryl Russell

> - who are sincerely trying to put things right.

> But I fear they are fighting a losing battle.

> There's just too much corruption - or maybe it's

> just incompetence - at every level...

>

> Actually, I've just had a thought. Martin Green is

> the man to contact. I shall be doing so on Monday.

> He's the one in charge of this shambles and behind

> these bullying tactics you mentioned. Just ring

> switchboard on 0207 525 5000 and choose option 3

> and ask for him.

Southwark will contact the MCO at two stages

1. At Collections level when the debt is established and there has been no payment made. At that point the MCO will usually knock back the request on the grounds that no Judgment exists and therefore that their security is not at risk.

2. After Judgment. Once Southwark has Judgment, they will do S146 if the debt exceeds ?350. A S146 will cost you ?258 at last time of checking.

Then they write to your MCO demanding the lot.

The MCO will huff and puff but will usually pay.

[Errol]

fabfor Wrote:

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> Thanks for the clarification, spider69. Writing to

> a mortgage lender before responding to a

> leaseholder's query is .. what - the punitive

> response of a bully?

The Councils rationale is that they are protecting other leaseholders. If you don;t pay, it costs others more.

Please see the above post about when they write to the MCO.

I can give you an example of what a letter to the MCO with Judgment would look like.

NOTE: You can ALWAYS ASK Southwark to write to your MCO

Example: you don;t have the money and the claim has been issued by the County Court {NB the difference between a CLAIM and a JUDGMENT, if you need help on this just ask} and you don't want a Judgment you can ring your Morthage Company and tell them you want them to pay. Then ring the Council, tell them you spoke to your MCO, give them the contact number, and TELL the Council to write to your MCO with a letter requesting payment.

If the Council don't do this, and you have a record of asking them to do so, and the Council go and get Judgment against you..........then you should apply to have that Judgment set aside.

Any questions, just ask.

Errol.

[gpercival78]

An interesting read throughout. Few questions I had:

* How long does a major work program take. Ours started January 2014 and was to take 4 weeks. 15months later, it is still not complete but there are no work men on site and scaffolding is down.

* How long does it take to get the bill/invoice? Our work in my eyes is complete but we have had nothing

* Is there any way of contesting at ?24,000 estimated bill

* We have other bits of work being done that were not on the schedule or planned works - how does a council justify this (new paving slabs, ballards around the blocks - in my eyes not needed and the paving slabs are a bit of harzard - not even)

* Amdin fee - how does the council justify a 10% admin fee for major works. in my eyes this is a business as usual process. I already pay a service charge.

I may have a few more points but main ones on my list.

[Errol]

gpercival78 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> An interesting read throughout. Few questions I

> had:

>

> * How long does a major work program take. Ours

> started January 2014 and was to take 4 weeks.

> 15months later, it is still not complete but there

> are no work men on site and scaffolding is down.

> * How long does it take to get the bill/invoice?

> Our work in my eyes is complete but we have had

> nothing

> * Is there any way of contesting at ?24,000

> estimated bill

> * We have other bits of work being done that were

> not on the schedule or planned works - how does a

> council justify this (new paving slabs, ballards

> around the blocks - in my eyes not needed and the

> paving slabs are a bit of harzard - not even)

> * Amdin fee - how does the council justify a 10%

> admin fee for major works. in my eyes this is a

> business as usual process. I already pay a service

> charge.

>

> I may have a few more points but main ones on my

> list.

I must stress I did not work in Major Works but I will try to help you regardless:

The Council justifies the work being done on the basis that the Council, as freeholder, is under an obligation to maintain the building and its environs. In short, there is nothing you can do to stop them for undertaking a major works job provided it is fair and reasonable that those works be carried out.

I would refer you to this link: http://www.flat-living.co.uk/advice/257-what-is-a-section-20-notice-and-what-are-they-for

The council MUST consult with you in a prescribed fashion.

Did they do this or not???? You must have records of the papers sent out to you by the council and these will be used to determine whether the Council did or did not correspond with you in the correct fashion under the law.

The council is entitled to charge on an estimated bill, as per the terms of the lease.

The time to challenge the estimate was at the time of consultation, which is why it is key to determine whether the council consulted you properly or not. Put together all documentation relating to the work being done and see what you have.

I have some notes somewhere about this ADMIN fee thing, I also have a friend in the Council who may help with this. Please bear with me on this one for the moment.

Errol.

[fredbear]

I am away at present but will reply on the weekend we have had the sAme problems in resolving a 2009 major works bill we have just done it

[fabfor]

I'm also away at present but will try to find details of the "fine/charge" when I return next month. Thanks again, Erroll.

[PeckhamRose]

Me thinks Errol is an ex-insider who could be very useful. But remember systems change that you may not be aware of Errol. It looks like you are being very, very generous with your time and it sounds like you feel you have every reason to be; ie. it sounds like you were not happy with the way Southwark treated us and want to now 'work' for us via these pages. Very kind!

Could you consider volunteering for the Leaseholders Association of Southwark? They need your help for sure. (Maybe you already do volunteer for them.) Best wishes to you.

[Otta]

fabfor Wrote:

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> I'm also away at present but will try to find

> details of the "fine/charge" when I return next

> month. Thanks again, Erroll.

Will you be flying back? ;-)

[fabfor]

Yes, otta, I will be flying back to complete my annual 12,000 mile round trip! And Furthermore I'll be enjoying it too because I love flying and aircraft. BUT I regard loud, sleep-disturbing noise at night as a (proven) health hazard which is why I'm against night flights (as any sane person should be)! Anyhow, wrong thread!!!

[kd11]

More info :

http://adf.ly/UqlO2

[fabfor]

Received this link via email but the post has obviously been pulled (by admin?):http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1216858,1504796#msg-1504796

I'd dearly love to know what it said.

[Administrator]

It was a spam link to creepy a porn site.

[fabfor]

Thanks, admin.:-)

[Errol]

Oh god it wasn't something I posted was it???