A plea to cyclists

[davidk]

+1 to that ^^

Not a day goes by without me shaking my head in amazement at the weak positioning and lack of observation of some of my fellow two wheelers.

[malumbu]

A refreshingly honest post by Savage, and an excellent reply by Polla.

The debate here and on other threads continues to be useful (shame it is hijacked from time to time).

I've been a militant/holier than though London cyclist for a quarter of a century, witnessing many changes including the increase in bikes. I think that I am an excellent cyclist, if somewhat shouty at times, but there is always need for reflection. And moderation. For example:

1. I was nearly hit by a car doing a u turn on a side road off the Old Kent Road a few months ago. The driver was more traumatized than me, which meant me comforting her rather than vice-versa. Nice not to have been sworn at for a change. But as this was a quiet time of day I was perhaps a fraction of a second off realising what was happening, even though none of this was my fault.

2. In a hurry I turned left whilst driving in the summer, not into a path of a cyclist but near enough that it concerned me that I had not checked more carefully. Worrying as my main form of transport is a bike.

3. I dashed across a road near St James Park a few years ago, and was clipped by a cyclist. I was very apologetic and the cyclist just shouted 'no worries'. If the situation was reversed I would have gone ape-poo at the pedestrian

4. Coming across too many bikes without lights, usually young 'leisure' cyclists rather than commuters like me. Usually in dark clothing. Particularly on the Peckham canal route, but I can also argue that it is difficult to see many pedestrians as well using this 'mixed' route, also in dark clothing.

5. Got stopped by the OB this (cloudy) Monday morning and advised that I should have my lights on. We got into a short discussion and I talked about my whole defensive/anticipative/make myself big and clear approach to cycling, and then kicked myself for not having a go at the feds for doing their campaign at the wrong time, ie they should have been there on the evening commute to have a go at those without lights, or those daft mini lights.

6. I do, and will continue, to weave through slow and stationary traffic. I don't and will continue not to, pass a HGV on the inside anywhere near a junction. In doing the former I am acutely aware of any sudden movement of the road vehicles that suggest that they have not seen me. My risk.

7. I was one of the last to go on the local authority/bike club voluntary motor cycle training that predated the two- part motorcycle test (and subsequent balls-up ever since). DID that teach me about positioning and indicating (and this was someone who thought having had a car license for a three years, that he was an excellent driver). So useful for cycling today

8. All of this is food for thought, not strong opinion. The only thing I do want to add that pees me off about driving (and I see this from what ever mode of transport I use) is the basic 'mirror, signal, manoeuvre'. This was drummed into me both through public info campaigns and my own driving test. So WTF do so many drivers not do not indicate in good time both for courtesy, but more importantly to show that they probably have looked first?

There is a lovely clip on me on Youtube from 2007 cycling into central London with no helmet. I could still argue that I don't need one, but it is simpler just to put the thing on in any case. Ah, more carefree times.

[titch juicy]

On my cycling commute in the last couple of weeks i've noticed a marked improvement in defensive cycling behaviour- i think the message might be getting across. People seem to be taking much more responsibility for their own safety. Shame it's taken so many deaths to do it.

[northlondoner]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> What a great comment above by polla and a very

> open and honest opening post by savage.

> Mr PR was stopped by police on his bicycle on

> Vauxhall Bridge Road today asking why he does not

> wear a helmet. Research showed that vehicles

> actually tend to give helmet free cyclists MORE

> space albeit subconsciously. But a helmet does

> not save a head that is going to smash on a road.

> It's a bit of plastic. They don't do much for

> motorcyclists either. They're actually built the

> wrong way in, the hard bit should be touching the

> skull; the soft bit on the outside.

>

> And that mad bint Jenny Jones saying HGVs

> shouldn't be allowed to ride through London at

> rush hour!

> I think I shall write to her and suggest she push

> for a law that they should not be allowed to turn

> left. Ever. That will sort it.

>

> What about all the pedestrians who have been

> killed. And dare we suggest that in SOME cases

> Some people who ride bicycles / pedestrians /

> others who die in road accidents were to blame?

> How many times do I have to use the horn on my

> bike (it may be more dangerous for me to swerve

> than hit the idiot) to warn some twonk who is

> wondering across the road on their mobile?

>

> etc

>

> etc

>

> etc

>

> and breathe!

Great post - though you may get into trouble for suggesting some cyclists ride dangerously. Succinct but accurate description of Jenny jones !

[spark67]

Just back from a weekend in Rome, And was thinking "god I'm glad I don't cycle here" Then noticed the array of sectioned off cycle lanes, and shared cycle pavement/spaces, where pedestrians and cyclists were quite polite to each other, no one seemed to be bothered about the shared space and each gave way accordingly. also most traffic lights had cycle lights too. And it appeared that at crossings with lights, the rule seemed to be cars and bikes could go if there were no pedestrians crossing, obviously they all had to slow to approach. I thought it was just that neither could be bothered to stop, but our friend who has lived there 18yrs said it was how its worked for years. After hearing about aggressive roman driving i was quite suprised :)

[LadyDeliah]

So even Italy, the home of the notoriously dangerous driver and near economic collapse, is putting us to shame.

[Loz]

And yet...

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/184353/thousands-protest-in-rome-for-cycle-safety

[LadyDeliah]

So Italy is appalling, but Rome appears to have cycle lights on most of their traffic lights, unlike London. So if Italy is crap, what does that make us?

[ultraburner]

Spot on mlteenie.

[JohnL]

So many drivers in London disobey rules of the road, quite blatantly, that I've

begun to believe many of them are immune to prosecution or not legal or never took

a test.

Unfortunately they beep and wave and try to get other drivers to break the law

at traffic lights, box junctions etc also.

[davidk]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So many drivers in London disobey rules of the

> road, quite blatantly, that I've

> begun to believe many of them are immune to

> prosecution or not legal or never took

> a test.

>

> Unfortunately they beep and wave and try to get

> other drivers to break the law

> at traffic lights, box junctions etc also.

You're not far off the mark. Law breaking by motorists is socially acceptable (though it seems to be becoming less so) and the authorities have a very poor record of proper enforcement. Often the courts hands are tied by jurys who don't understand the issues or by sentencing guidelines that are shockingly lenient. Whether this is relevant to the OP is of course debatable! :D

[spark67]

I can only report what I saw tbh, maybe people have bucked their ideas up in Rome since that was written, who knows :)

[syncro]

I usually cycle, I am lit up like a Christmas tree and wear very uncool bright orange.! My mantra is be seen, or be dead.

This morning I drove to work, left home about 6.30.. On the way I nearly killed a cyclist. No 2 ways about it. it was dark, a touch misty too. He was wearing black, black helmet too. No front lights and a back LED light that was very dim. Came straight across a mini roundabout. I just didn't see him and I had to emergency stop. He shouted a load of abuse and rode into the darkness... I sat there shaking for 20 minutes.

[davidk]

Certainly no excuses for lack of effective lights, well done for not killing him. Lack of day-glo clothing much less of an issue.

[LadyNorwood]

This morning at 6am - very dark, very foggy - from my seat on the bus saw at least six cyclists, all wearing black with no lights on their bikes, couple of cars with only side lights on too, pedestrians dressed in black running out behind buses - one woman ran with her toddler in front of our bus, even though there was a zebra crossing about 20 yards away....

[El Pibe]

Mind you I had to gesticulate wildly to a few cars who were driving sans headlights. twunts!

[Parkdrive]

Blackcurrant Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LadyDeliah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > When I cycle, I'm lit up like a Christmas tree

> but

> > I still have drivers, who clearly see me,

> pulling

> > out in front of me because they don't appear to

> > think they should give priority to bikes as

> they

> > do to other vehicles.

>

> And there's nothing you can do about drivers who

> are texting or fiddling with iPhone/satnav/mp3

> player etc etc.

Or cyclists who clearly think it's ok to hurtle along a pavement when they should in the road where traffic is supposed to be.

[El Pibe]

Parkdrive, meet the interminable cyclist/motorist culture war.

interminable cyclist/motorist culture war, meet Parkdrive.

You'll get on famously.

[malumbu]

On my cycle home quite late tonight I saw a number of cars with deffective lights, (one was quite spectacuar with one headlight too high and one too low), a number who couldn't be bothered to signal, a number of bikes with good lights, some rubbish (eg too high, too low, or those daft small single trendy lights) and only one with no lights but that was because bike traffic was quite low. I happily cycled through the lights at the Rye, because there was absolutely no traffic there (wont do this at normal times of the day).

A normal day really.

What am I trying to say? I always post that most cyclists, pedestrians, and drivers are reasonable/decent. We aren't going to get a lot of enforcement from the authorities to change the behaviour of others, so I suppose should continue to make the right noises, and not get involved in petty verbal fights as is too often seen on this site.

Sorry this does sound a bit pompous. But I went to a dull Xmas party, a crown fell out and I can't even be criticised for drinking too much.

[LadyDeliah]

Parkdrive Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blackcurrant Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > LadyDeliah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > When I cycle, I'm lit up like a Christmas

> tree

> > but

> > > I still have drivers, who clearly see me,

> > pulling

> > > out in front of me because they don't appear

> to

> > > think they should give priority to bikes as

> > they

> > > do to other vehicles.

> >

> > And there's nothing you can do about drivers

> who

> > are texting or fiddling with iPhone/satnav/mp3

> > player etc etc.

>

> Or cyclists who clearly think it's ok to hurtle

> along a pavement when they should in the road

> where traffic is supposed to be.

You comment is relevant to my post, how exactly?