Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[Fuschia]

The habs theft issue has already been subject to civil litigation. There is plenty of talk about it in the school and academy finance community.

It's also been raised in parliament

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm140722/text/140722w0005.htm#1407232000003

[intexasatthe moment]

Otta ,it occurs to me that it ( the notion that East Dulwich and Dulwich are distinct ) might be a generational thing .

East Dulwich is much more affluent ,and aspirational , now , than it was when I grew up so perhaps the distinction between the two districts has become less clear cut .

Not that it matters really does it ? Of greater significance ,in my book ,is that a largely publicly funded institution like Habs can have fallen foul to loosing money on this scale and over a period of time before coming to light .

[Otta]

Nah doesn't really matter, but still interesting to me. I asked my wife what she thought of when I said Dulwich and she said the library/plough, and that the village is the village and ED is more the Goose Green end of Lordship Lane. Everyone has their own ideas I guess. I don't really think of anything on the hospital side as East Dulwich (even though it is) it's just perspective.

[bornagain]

We are getting a dog and my kids spend hours discussing what name it should have - should it have a human name e.g. Fred or should it be named after a flower e.g. Daisy? We, the adults are more concerned that the putative dog is (1) healthy (2) has no behavioural problems (3) is not too expensive.

This discussion about Haberdashers's possible move to the hospital site is increasingly reminding me of my domestic situation! You children are arguing about what the school (which may not happen if other more serious things are not sorted out) should be called whereas others are asking and finding relevant information so that as a community we can make the right decision - to have a school that is run by an organisation that is healthy, has no behavioural problems and that can look after its money.

I know some of you have your own personal reasons for perpetuating the childish thread - James (for obvious reasons) and Otta (ex-pupil). The rest of you, and the steering group in particular please pull your socks up! (as I say to my kids ;))

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The habs theft issue has already been subject to

> civil litigation. There is plenty of talk about it

> in the school and academy finance community.

>

> It's also been raised in parliament

>

> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/

> cmhansrd/cm140722/text/140722w0005.htm#14072320000

> 03

[samstopit]

Hi bornagain

As a member of the steering group who has been working her arse off for several months to try to set up an outstanding secondary school for our community, I am a little put out by your request that we pull our socks up.

If you have a look on the separate threads about the community meeting and the feedback forms you will see that we have put up a link to a FAQ paper which gives a response to the fraud allegations as well as setting out Habs' strengths as our chosen provider and more details about what the proposed school will look like. We have been working extremely hard to engage the community on this to make sure we get the admissions policy right and understand what people need. This included delivering leaflets to every single house and flat in East Dulwich, Peckham and Nunhead, attending a deputation at Southwark cabinet on the schools places strategy, writing letters to Michael Gove and Tessa Jowell and lobbying council members behind the scenes to find solutions to the various issues that keep cropping up about the site. We meet weekly - some of us more often - and email daily.

But clearly we are not doing enough. I'll tell my kids we aren't going to the park today as mummy has to go and solve a case of historical fraud against the Haberashers Federation.

[Cora]

Samstopit I suggest we delegate solving the historical fraud investigations to bornagain and you just focus on the fantastic work you have all been doing to get a co-ed secondary school for East Dulwich. I for one am very grateful. This secondary school was not on the agenda until James Barber listened to local parents and spearheaded the campaign.

[mariababe]

Well said Samstopit

[a_book_for_life]

.

[bornagain]

Hi Samstopit,

The steering group have done fantastically well to get the bid to this stage and clearly from what you say that you are dedicated and put a lot of time and effort into the process. It seems to me however (as an outsider but an engaged and interested local resident) that things have moved a bit left field of late with the outing of the news of the fraud.

Was the steering group aware of the fraud when they backed the Habs bid? It certainly raises questions about the robustness of the financial governance of the Federation. We are not talking paper clips, we are talking ?2million or even ?4million (according to BBC news). Which is it I wonder?

Haberdashers clearly did not want this talked about but since being outed by Private Eye, they have no choice. It has been discussed in Parliament. We need to know about it. Pretending it isn't happening and instead obsessing whether to call the school Dulwich or East Dulwich is not going to make it go away!

Going back to the dog analogy, we have found that the chosen one has a less than perfect background. What should we do about it now? Do we take it or walk away?

[bornagain]

Hi Cora

I am not saying anything about solving the historical fraud LOL!

What I am saying is that we need to make sure that if the community goes with Habs then the Federation is as well run as they claim to be. Schools are not sophisticated financial organisations. Their income and outgoings are very straightforward and for them to 'lose' several million pounds over a number of years beggars belief.

What have they/are they doing so that this does not happen again?

[samstopit]

If you read the Q&A on the have your say thread (page 12) it answers your question. I would post it here but am out hunting down a dodgy accountant :)

[bornagain]

Seeing you are busy I will do it for you :)

So the amount is ?4.1 million over 7 years. Wow. Well done current management team for catching the villan.

I hope the steering group know more about how they managed to catch him and how this will never happen again than that snippit tells us.

[TE44]

Thanks fushia, I notice on your link there is no defrauded amount given for 2012, considering they were not informed

until 1st November that year, i'm assuming it took Habs all on that year until reporting it,which by the

answer on the link it appears they stopped the fraud. I thought it was in the contract between them and EFA

to report to Efa immediately.

This is not about taking away all the work people have put into this,I had no idea about this case regarding fraud.

I believe james would make light of any genuine concerns or am i "being a bit silly", preferring to stick to the,

The big question what shall we call it, have I missed something, has a definite decision been made ruling out charter.

[parentsteeringgroup]

The decision about whether the new secondary school will be established by Charter or Haberdashers will be made by DFE when they have assessed both bids. Bids are submitted in October (wave 8) and we will know the result early in the new year.

Regarding the alleged fraud. The steering group is a group of local parents and we have to follow the legal / police advice given to Habs while a criminal investigation is underway. We take our role as a steering group, representing the community, extremely seriously. We wouldn't be working with Habs as our provider if we weren't happy that its financial systems were robust - this is the school we want our kids to go to after all. The new management team has put watertight financial systems in place.

Some good news - Tessa Jowell has written to Nicky Morgan, Sec of State for Education, regarding the acute local need for a secondary school. Link below.

[James Barber]

Hi bornagain,

How do we respect the Police requirement to not talk about the case for fear of prejudicing it and any suspect getting away with crimes while fulfilling your request for complete transparency?

I don't think we can square this circle. We have to wait until such time that thE Police close this case - hopefully with people being convicted.

As for community support. Clearly the Haberdashers' bid is ahead of The Charter School bid. The former has 678 unique families supporting it with another 32 being checked through. We have no knowledge of the TCS bid community support because their level of support is being kept secret.

[Vik]

I'm pretty sure the 678 figure is people interested in a secondary school full stop. Not necessarily a Haberdashers, the majority of that number expressed their interest before any specific schools were mentioned, no?

To say that one is 'clearly ahead' of the other is totally unfair, the provider will be chosen by the DfE, not a vote on an internet forum so no-one can put themselves 'ahead'.

[James Barber]

Hi Vik,

No.

63% joined our campaign after Habs was announced as our preferred school provider and I/we've made it clear to supporters they could withdraw their support if they didn't expect to put Habs first on the secondary school application form. Two have withdrawn their support since I started the campaign. One early on, one after Habs announced.

I hope you're wrong and we don't have duplicates between our list of supporters and the Charter list. The EFA would be expected to compare lists to de duplicate them as a supporter on both lists is contrary to the criteria of support EFA requires.

On the criteria of community support. Our campaign has been crystal clear and transparent about our levels of support and published them on this thread and in emails to supporters throughout the campaign. The Charter campaign has not. Not sure of why the secrecy but they clearly have their reasons. Not sure why being proud of our transparency is unfair. This transparency has been present throughout the campaign I started.

But I would expect the level of support to have an impact on an applicantions likely success but clearly it's only part of the application process the EFA will consider.

[Otta]

Bornagain, terribly sorry if I'm being childlike discussing a potential name. I hadn't realised that this 27 page long thread which doesn't mention fraud in the title was now specifically for fraud discussion.

Although discussing it is completely pointless when you don't know the ins and outs. It's about as useful as a load of internet arriors in cosy London homes "sorting our" the Israel situation.

[bornagain]

Hi James,

I am not asking for any confidential/police matter to be leaked! Haberdashers have written to all their parents so it's hardly secret now.

All I am concerned is how robust the financial governance is at the Federation today and how this may impact the putative new school. This matter is not going to go away - it is/will be discussed in the media and I am sure questions will be asked by more than me about how this will affect the appropriateness of the Federation to run any new school.

By the way, did you know about this historical fraud case when you selected Haberdashers as the chosen school provider?

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi bornagain,

> How do we respect the Police requirement to not

> talk about the case for fear of prejudicing it and

> any suspect getting away with crimes while

> fulfilling your request for complete

> transparency?

> I don't think we can square this circle. We have

> to wait until such time that thE Police close this

> case - hopefully with people being convicted.

>

> As for community support. Clearly the

> Haberdashers' bid is ahead of The Charter School

> bid. The former has 678 unique families supporting

> it with another 32 being checked through. We have

> no knowledge of the TCS bid community support

> because their level of support is being kept

> secret.

[Otta]

bornagain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All I am concerned is how robust the financial

> governance is at the Federation today and how this

> may impact the putative new school.

How would you have them satisfy your curiosity?

[bornagain]

A more detailed and substantive statement through the steering group might do it. Not a tiny question and answer tucked away on page 12, I don't think that is enough.

This could be a serious set back to their bid re: the community, a blow to their credibility - letting someone defraud them of ?4.1 million over 7 years without noticing!

The Charter bid must be rubbing their hands?

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> bornagain Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > All I am concerned is how robust the financial

> > governance is at the Federation today and how

> this

> > may impact the putative new school.

>

>

>

> How would you have them satisfy your curiosity?

[James Barber]

Hi Otta,

Many thanks.

Hi Bornagain,

Since the financial problems were discovered, through implementing new federation wide processes and systems, the Haberdashers' Aske's Federation having told the EFA immediately, they have had two further free school applications approved by the EFA/DfE.

This tells me that the EFA and DfE are totally happy with the financial systems and processes put in place and that the rigour applied meant that alleged wrong doing was found.

On this basis I have no fear that our application will be damaged by this historic problem. Much as I would not expect the Charter bid to be damaged by its historic admissions problem culminating after many years in a finding against them in 2012.

Both school providers are great. We chose, as detailed in documents we've made as transparent and public as possible, for Habs.

[TE44]

Dont you mean Gaza situation, but lets not mix up threads here that have no relation to Habs.

[bornagain]

OK James, thanks for the information, let's hope you're right!

[TE44]

james its nice to know you have total faith in the EFA, unfortunately many don't. Why if problems have been

addressed this information has not been explained to parents, what has been done to stop this happening again.

The fact 2 other schools have been approved may satisfy you it certainly does not me.