Bakerloo line extension to Camberwell?

[Ron70]

I realise this is the ED Froum, however does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether the Bakerloo extension to Camberwell and Peckham Rye is going to happen?

[the-e-dealer]

no

[????]

I first heard about this in 1983, I am sure people were talking about it in the 30s too. Estate agents in Camberwell often mention it a like it's a given, something they were doing in the 80s....and the 30s no doubt.

So, no

[Jeremy]

Apparently if an extension was to happen, camberwell and peckham is not even the favoured route.

[Bic Basher]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Apparently if an extension was to happen,

> camberwell and peckham is not even the favoured

> route.

Southwark are favouring the option to extend the Bakerloo via Camberwell and Peckham, while Lewisham want it to go along the Old Kent Road towards New Cross.

[DulwichFox]

The Bakerloo line trains are relatively empty when they arrive at Elephant and Castle.

Don't think it would ever be cost effective.

Having said that, it would ease the bus congestion.

Can be a nightmare despite the numerous routes to Camberwell, East Dulwich & Peckham.

DulwichFox

[acp_no9]

There's a post on the SE23 forum about this - apparently the latest commitment was to add trains to the existing overground routes, but no further discussion re: Bakerloo extension. Dear Boris mentioned it back end of last year. Here endeth my incredibly un-illuminating post. Apologies. Perhaps I should have gone back and cross referenced the aforementioned post.... it's just that my fingers are cramped from being crossed for so long in the hope that this might materialise.

[micromacromonkey]

Check out londonreconnections.com for sensible discussion on this. As far as I can work out the synopsis is as follows: The Bakerloo will probably be extended, but not in the next 10 years (at least), and the route may or may not include Peckham.

[lane lover]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> The Bakerloo line trains are relatively empty when

> they arrive at Elephant and Castle.

>

> Don't think it would ever be cost effective.

>

> Having said that, it would ease the bus

> congestion.

> Can be a nightmare despite the numerous routes to

> Camberwell, East Dulwich & Peckham.

>

> DulwichFox

I am guessing they are relatively empty because its the last station and there is nowhere else to go. The same could be said for Morden, Stanmore, Stratford, Epping etc.

I think it would be a great idea to ease bus conjestion and take traffic off the roads, but alas - as we know on this forum - the idea disappears very quickly.

As micromacromonkey says - there will be an extension someday, but the route is unclear. I wouldnt hold my breath!

[Paitro]

is there any way we can sign up a mass appeal to our local mp or to mayor of london to have a look at this issue?

I would loooove a tube or overground stop in ED (or close by)! bus congestion is horrible lately...

[the-e-dealer]

Boris doesnt really like doing anything in South London. He cancelled the East Dulwich Overground and the peckham Tram. He has no plans for Barclays Bikes Either.

[monkeylite]

Not only Boris, but previous governments and TfL as a whole dislikes South East London. Check the London Railway connection map and you will see one massive empty patch between E&C, Old Kent Road, South Bermondsey and Walworth that has no railway stations. It isn't surprising the traffic on Old Kent Road and Walworth Road is unbearable. Lewisham is the only inner London council that does not have a tube station in it!

Bakerloo line is the only tube line with spare capacity and extending it makes more sense than Crossrail 2. Part of the Hayes line could be re purposed, taking it via New Cross and New Kent Road and terminating in Hayes. The success of the Overground has proven that you can easily upgrade existing lines for budget to create a new successful franchise.

Still, I expect the TfL and Mayor of London office has zero appetite for servicing South East London, so I have given up hope of ever seeing a new tube station being built here.

[the-e-dealer]

monkeylite you are right. It is no use appealing to previous governments either.

But at least Ken allowed the London Overground to H Oak and Peckham.

[Jeremy]

I guess the big difference with the overground is that the OG is a 4-times-per-hour service which shares track with national rail. That made the extension feasible, as the amount of new track was fairly small. Even though the Bakerloo uses a full gauge track, the frequency would make it impossible to share with other rail services.

[micromacromonkey]

Who would it benefit though? From PR we can get to City/Canary Wharf/Victoria/E&C/Farringdon/KingsX/Clapham Junction pretty easily. All a Bakerloo extension would give us is slightly better journey times into bits of the west end (only slightly better because tube trains travel slowly). They also look at how much it would benefit the areas around proposed stations, and Peckham Rye/ED are pretty far along on that gentrification scale (on the proposed peckham route there is an intermediate station at burgess park which would help with the scally gentrification figures, but probably not enough). Considering it will cost 5bn that isn't much of a return, so that's why it will probably go along the old kent road to provide new escape routes from New Cross, Lewisham and other assorted dumps out that way.

If you are in this for the long haul then sure sign a petition and see what happens, but major infrastructure projects move slowly compared to most peoples life events. Once they have finished with Crossrail, have found funding for CR2 and built it, then find funding for the Bakerloo extension and build it, that will probably be in 2030. I hope to be retired by then and living in a place with much worse public transport (a caribbean island perhaps).

[????]

I don't want it...

[Nigello]

There is no rail - light, underground, overground - from Camberwell to Denmark Hill. There used to be a station at Camberwell, and - as far as I know - could still be one if the money and effort were forthcoming. This part of the capital is very poorly served by rail. The buses are often overflowing, especially at peak times, so I am for anything that makes travel more civilised from central London to SE15, 5, 22 etc.

Can you imagine Clapham without any rail link? It's got two Tubes and an Overground line now and look how it differs from Walworth Road. (This is not necessarily an argument for Claphamification, just an observation, so please, no endless arguments a la Rye Lane thread).

[the-e-dealer]

I would benefit - to and from work 15 mins quicker! 2 1/2 hours a week !

[hpsaucey]

???? Wrote:

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> I don't want it...

Second this. Don't want it either. Selfishly think it keeps this part of London a little bit less manic and that suits me personally just fine.

[the-e-dealer]

90 hours a year ! :-(

[cle]

The buses around Camberwell and up the Walworth Road alone make the case for this - must be about 10 different routes!

I saw plans for the Old Kent Road route, which is quicker to New Cross which I think was the big aim. Perhaps Camberwell and Peckham could be served by a shorter branch and the whole line could have two halves?

Even if we only had 12 trains per hour (Bakerloo is 24) that would still be a great improvement. And don't the lines at Elephant already extend some way down the Walworth Road?

[Earl Aelfheah]

I believe that they got close to an agreement on reopening a few years back, but only if there was agreement to close Loughborough Junction. Personally, considering how close LJ is to Brixton tube and train station, out of the two there is a better argument for a Camberwell Green Station (although I'm not entirely sure why they couldn't keep both.

Bakerloo line does already travel down as far as Burgess Park, although it's only used for turning trains I think. Sooner or later (definitely later), they will extend the Bakerloo line. The degree to which SE London's public transport provision keeps falling further and further behind the rest of the capital is a scandal. Even in terms of Cycle superhighways and Boris Bikes, we're a vacuum on the maps.

Nigello Wrote:

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> There used to be a station at Camberwell, and - as far as I know

> - could still be one if the money and effort were

> forthcoming.

[JDR]

Lack of trains/ tubes is also why south east London is (relatively) affordable. If rail arrives then house prices will climb even higher..... Great for work, terrible for the average people looking for homes

[Bic Basher]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

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> Boris doesnt really like doing anything in South

> London. He cancelled the East Dulwich Overground

> and the peckham Tram. He has no plans for Barclays

> Bikes Either.

The decision to not extend the Overground to Wimbledon via ED was taken before BoJo came into power. It was a choice between ED or the Sydenham line getting the ELL. It was shown that it'd benefit them more which has been proven thanks to the over popularity of the service from FH and HOP.

Boris did axe the Cross River Tram and the Croydon Tramlink extension to Crystal Palace. He did extend the bikes into South London, but to Wandsworth and Putney instead.

[maxxi]

Monorail!