Victorian Property Split into flats.

[AllforNun]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this ? I was looking through some planning documents and it seems that splitting a property into smaller units ticks many of the governments guidelines. Surely at some point there should be a tipping point where the street in question can no longer take the increase, also surely it has an effect on community especially in terms of rental / short term tenants etc. Now with the new ruling with regard to small rear additions (with no planning needed) we are going to see a raft of 2 story additions appear purely to increase rental income.

[karter]

Hi Allfornun,

I have some thoughts on this. If a Victorian property is to be split into smaller units then it should be done properly, in terms of services, sound/fire proofing etc etc. I have come across many bodge jobs that have been put on the market, when looking around, and things should be done properly via planning and building regs. It IS ashame that these properties are broken down however i would be amazed to find a Victorian property worth buying in order to split it even in this climate. ED prices are still expensive....Unless somebody knows otherwise...Estate agents ?

[Marmora Man]

We've reversed the principle. Bought a victorian property that was two flats and a bedsit. The conversion arrangements were of a standard that most cowboys would have looked down on.

After four long years of work we now have - garden flat for father-in-law and a decent 5 bedroomed house. Only the hallway to go in terms of renovation / decoration.

With a bit of luck the whole shebang may be worth just about what I paid for it four long years ago!

[SteveT]

You do have the pleasure of knowing that what has been done since your occupation,

has been done with a certain quality and that you have a pleasant abode for the forseeable future Marmora Man.

It does not matter what its worth if you have peace of mind with the results.

Sod the market and live life as you please, it is first and foremost a home and if it happens to be a good investment that is a bonus.

[candj]

Hello AllforNun,

It is a shame really when there is a shortage of family dwellings in ED. Southwark planning rules are such that the dimensions of the flats proposed have to be over a certain size (depending if they are one bedrooms/two bedroom flats). I think this is an across the board rule and Southwark are serious to enforce it. A few years ago a 3 bedroom Victorian terrace came on the market across the street from us, was snapped up from a developer who stupidly didn't get planning permission to turn it into flats and assumed that it would be okay from the council, tried to get planning as the works were in progress (ie, already did the loft conversion, kitchen extension,) and was rejected and had to leave it as a house. He was a silly man indeed, but we were happy as a lovely family have moved in since*. He still made money in the end selling it as a single house, but probably not as much as he would have made if it were sold as two flats.

*not a class thing, we would have been happy if two lovely families moved into two flats!

Off to go bake some organic acorn and grass bread now... ;-)

[????]

In the 70s/80s this was common as middle-class families fled most of inner non-posh London (er that's us and Clapham in those days)and many 'family' homes were converted into flats to rent out. What 'youngsters' don't realise is just how much people didn't want to live in London until the late 80s. There were thousands of empty squatted properties, nillion pound+ houses in areas like Hampstead were just siphoned off into cheap flats for renting to students..Council flats were available to students as they were 'hard to let'.....I wonder if we're heading back to that now the 'Casino' is going bust?

[Marmora Man]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You do have the pleasure of knowing that what has

> been done since your occupation,

>

> has been done with a certain quality and that you

> have a pleasant abode for the forseeable future

> Marmora Man.

>

> It does not matter what its worth if you have

> peace of mind with the results.

>

> Sod the market and live life as you please, it is

> first and foremost a home and if it happens to be

> a good investment that is a bonus.

Agree entirely - it's all monopoly money anyway

[citizenED]

There happen to be two properties on Lordship Lane, just by the junction of Townley Road, that are currently be re-converted from flats back into houses. Apparently by Queens Park, NW10 you get more for a whole house than for the combined total for the two converted flats simply because so many of the properties were converted that a whole house is in demand and therefore commands a premium price.

[AllforNun]

When these decisions are taken to grant, there only seems to be a couple of local councillors and a council officer (architect or whatever) in sitting. Yet when a road is completely turned into flats the impact on the social environment can be huge, parking, short term tenants, loss of community etc. Victorian houses were never meant to be used in this way and were never constructed with regard to sound and insulation in mind anyway. it seems that guide lines and wants drawn up by the higher powers for new build flats are completely transferable to older properties, which in reality are mostly pretty unsuited. - surely there should be a limit per street or someone really clued up about the social effects, sitting on these hearings. It is amazing to read how many of these proposals are objected to by locals/neighbours in the roads in question and are then still given the go-ahead ! it's a kind of borrow now pay later system, sound crunchingly familiar ?

[candj]

Agreed (ouch!) AFN, all one has to do is to take Battersea/Clapham as a perfect example. This area is rife with Victorian properties being turned into flats, with houses getting extensions (side returns being filled in, lofts being done, gardens being taken away). Parking is a massive problem as is traffic congestion around and through the area, rubbish collection is third world-like - the the bin men being aggressive and angry at the amount that rubbish has increased (this last point I've seen first hand). The local schools are quite taxed, as well. The social problems are endless, but it is a pervasive problem in London, a desirable capital city where people want to move despite the housing shortage.

[MelbourneGr]

I'll be honest - If I had a Victorian house and ?80k lying around, that house would be 2 flats within 8 weeks.

[Cassius]

I reconverted two flats into one house, however the planning permission that had been obtained to convert in the first place still stands.

[Jeremy]

MelbourneGr - you really think that the price of two 2 bed flats, minus an 80k conversion would really come to much more (if anything) than the price of a decent sized terraced house?

[MelbourneGr]

Probably not with the current market situation - but I wouldn't want to sell. Certainly not with my newly increased cashflow.

[thebeard]

AllforNun Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When these decisions are taken to grant, there

> only seems to be a couple of local councillors and

> a council officer (architect or whatever) in

> sitting. Yet when a road is completely turned into

> flats the impact on the social environment can be

> huge, parking, short term tenants, loss of

> community etc. Victorian houses were never meant

> to be used in this way and were never constructed

> with regard to sound and insulation in mind

> anyway. it seems that guide lines and wants drawn

> up by the higher powers for new build flats are

> completely transferable to older properties, which

> in reality are mostly pretty unsuited. - surely

> there should be a limit per street or someone

> really clued up about the social effects, sitting

> on these hearings. It is amazing to read how many

> of these proposals are objected to by

> locals/neighbours in the roads in question and are

> then still given the go-ahead ! it's a kind of

> borrow now pay later system, sound crunchingly

> familiar ?

It's all part of our ?political planning system? a system that is not geared towards environmental sustainable housing but political positioning keeping local politicians busy and local planners in work.

It?s a job creation system.

And a political tool.

Do NOT believe for one minute the system is there for our benefit or that the rules and guidelines are going to be followed because that would not benefit the powers at the council.

In the 70s many projects were intentionally planned to keep Labour supporters in their place in order for them to continue to vote Labour. (Poor quality housing = poorer quality of life which = more Labour votes)

We are still suffering from this today it is not an accident that housing in this country is expensive and in short supply.

There are government rules in place but the elected council members do as they please and those rules and rights mean nothing.

That is?

Until the government inspectors are involved and then the rights are imposed in the mean time neighbours suffer anxiety and stress often over plans that will not affect them anywhere as much as they think and it?s often worst for them than if they had gone along with the planners in the first place.

Compulsory purchases blighting entire neighbourhoods town centre redevelopments flat conversions etc etc.

Just look at all the road works!

They are spending our money on new traffic management islands speed ramps etc etc or other unnecessary carbuncles practically every other week. All that costs us tax payers millions and millions every year.

The council maintenance costs for the council housing they maintain is also double and we the tax payer foot the bill for this disgraceful waste but why would the council care the workers are probably on a back hander from the contractor and we pay for it is corrupt!

The council get a budget and they need to spend it because if they don?t spend it they will end up not getting the budget the following year so we they spend on unnecessary projects most of which the council pay double for which is often illegal and also criminal at one level or another.

All Projects we don?t need!

The whole planning system is a disgrace it serves only the political powers and the planning specialists.

It does not serve our neighbours and it does not serve us.

As a result what ?the politicians? want us to have and what we end up with are often a very poor and very expensive compromise substandard, which cause us all unnecessary anxiety and stress.

Little better than being in a 3rd world country!

I?m for a system, which is transparent and does not involve politicians.

A system which sets out standards and intensity and uses the brownfield capacity a system which benefits the local people.

We have little hope of this!

Because of the empty headed NIMBY masses.