Carpet stain on rented property - advice sought!

[amydown]

We rented a house for 6 months whilst doing building works and have just received the check-out report. There was a stain on the carpet under the bed which we had not seen until we moved the furniture out and although we had the carpet professionally steamed, it's visible.

The stain is the size of a square cushion and this was in the master bedroom (a very big room that fit a super king bed). The landlord is asking for ?750 to be deducted from the deposit which seems extortionate - I would be happy to pay for a professional patch repair and have proposed this option but wondered if anyone has any experience of similar situaion and can offer some advice?

Many thanks in advance

Amy

[Salsaboy]

?750 seems to be taking the p1ss a bit, especially as the stain is under the bed. I think your offer is a fair one.

[Jeremy]

To charge for a whole new carpet sounds very excessive if the area is not usually visible, but I would imagine the landlord is within his rights.

[KidKruger]

Did you make the stain ?

[amydown]

I can't recall it but it's not on the original check-in report so either our kids spilled it and we didn't know about it or it wasn't on the check-in report and we didn't spot it. Kicking myself over it either way!

From my research, it's not that clear in terms of what the landlord's rights are - can he really request the amount for replacing the whole carpet (which he is NOT doing and therefore this is not an incurred cost, which apparently in the US, is the case where you can only charge tenants for actual incurred costs)? There seems to be professional carpet repair firms who claim to do a great, unnoticeable patch job but admittedly I have never used these firms so not sure what the quality will be like. I will also give Lordship Lane Carpets a call in the morning for a chat..

[Otta]

When you moved in did the landlord provide you with details of what scheme they had put your deposit in to?

We recently had similar issues with the landlords, but because they'd failed to do this (and basically had just held on to the money) they didn't have a leg to stand on.

If your landlord has put your money in a scheme, then an independent arbitrator can decide what is fair. If they failed to do this then you can take them to court and they can be told to pay you 4 times your original deposit. Once our landlords twigged to this they couldn't give us our money fast enough.

Lots of these people assume tenants won't know their rights and just bully people.

[PokerTime]

That's right Otta. The deposit has to be paid into a TDP....

https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview

Ask for proof of this and follow the legal channels for challenging what seems to be an excessive charge. The landlord will not have the final say, but an independent arbitrator.

If the landlord didn't use a TDP then you have things in you favour and can use several means to get the money back.

As for the carpet...depending on the stain, there are other ways to clean when steaming isn't enough. Did your cleaners agitate the stained area before cleaning for example? I'd definitely take some expert advice on that first.

[PokerTime]

Here are some more useful links Amy.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_deposits/getting_your_deposit_back/deductions_from_tenancy_deposits

http://www.depositprotection.com/documents/a-guide-to-tenancy-deposits-disputes-and-damages.pdf

What is clear is that the Landlord can only keep that ?750 if he/ she can demonstrate that the stain results in that level of financial loss to him. If he's not seeking to replce the entire carpet, what is he seeking to do? An arbitrator would consider if his valuation is reasonable or not, vs your offer of alternate solutions and costs.

You are under no obligation to agree with him and he has no automatic right to keep your money. that is for an impartial third party to decide.

Is there any way you can post a pic of the stain to give us an idea of what we are talking about, i.e. size, colour etc. Might help any carpet experts out there too to offer advice.

[amydown]

Wow, this is so helpful. I will see if the check out report includes a picture and post it on here. Thank you so much everybody.

[PokerTime]

Anyone else think the landlord will have trouble justifying a cost of ?750?

http://londoncarpetrepairs.com/index4.html

Let us know how you get on Amy.

[StraferJack]

If they held deposit themselves, my suspicion is they have spent it and looking for ways to not find it to return it

Naughty

[binary_star]

If you don't need the money now (which if course a lot if tenants do which is how they get bullied into accepting a lot of deductions) then I would go to the arbitrator. We got about ?500 knocked off our original 'deductions' and gave up when it got down to arguing over ?100 or so. Get a few quotes together that you can send to the arbitrator. You only need to return the carpet to an equivalent state of repair...asking for you to make it better (i.e. Replacing while carpet or removin stains that were on check in report) is known as 'betterment' which landlord cannot request. One thing to bear in mind is that the check in report does not 'need' photos a description will suffice...

[Jeremy]

Reading the post again, it sounds like the flat is unfurnished. Therefore the fact that the stain is under where you had your bed is not really relevant to the landlord. I can understand the landlord not wanting the carpet cut away and patched up. If I was the landlord, depending on the condition of the carpet, I might look for a contribution towards a replacement.

[amydown]

Thanks all - Jeremy, you are right in that the house is unfurnished. It is also managed through an agent and therefore I think the deposit is in a protection scheme.

The agents however (I won't name them but an ED one) has handled our entirely 6 month tenancy in the most awful way. The check-in report was apparently supposed to be sent to us for sigture within a week of us moving in but they forgot to do this and when I asked 3 months into the tenancy, they then managed to produce it - this was then the first opportunity we had to highlight any disagreements but by that point, all our furniture was in place and therefore we would not have been able to see this area under the bed. I feel that this chain of events, when I set out to the arbitrators, will give us a strong case.

In addition, when we were moving into the property, we used a removals firm so we didn't have a chance to look at things propely before the big pieces of furniture were up (was all rather manic with two kids under 4!), hence the exposure.

I attach a photo and looking at this again myself, this really is a small area - you can sense the size of the bedroom if you see the number of double wardrobes at the other end of the room. I would be happy to contribute towards the cost of replacing the carpet in the future (as I know for well that the other tenants are in already and the landlord has no intention of ripping out this carpet in the near future) but I guess it comes down to how much is reasonable and that's a tough thing for us to agree on and therefore might need the arbitrators to step in...

[Otta]

Legally they were supposed to provide you with details of the scheme within x number of days from receiving your deposit, so if you don't know whether i's in a scheme or not, they've already broken rules.

I see Jeremy's point, but I lose sympathy for landlords when they take the piss.

Our issue was over a sofa which we admitted had gotten very grubby (kids and spillages). I was willing to contribute for a new one, but the landlord asked for ?500 (it was a 1970s/80s sofa worth nothing) and wouldn't negotiate, so we had to get serious.

Asking for ?750 is taking the piss.

[Jeremy]

A sofa's different... you can pick up a second hand one for ?100 or whatever. Especially if it was already old and battered.

Saying that, you should be able to carpet a large room for maybe ?400, so a contribution of half that (if it was already a few years old and won't be replaced for another year or two) would seem reasonable to me.

[StraferJack]

if the tenant are already in and furnished, what's the problem at all?

i could see how s tain might be unnatractive to would be renters, but that doesn't seem to be the case here

Moment has passed. If these tenants are there for at least a year or two it'll be time to replace whole carpet anyway - asking for any money from previous tenant is just pure greed

[Jeremy]

I dunno... you shouldn't just damage stuff and get away scot free. Not saying that's what's happening here, but in principle the security deposit is there for a reason. I guess it depends whether the damage really has shortened the useable life of the carpet or not.

[StraferJack]

Tenant has repeatedly said they happy to pay for something. That's not scot free

IMO, noone has suffered so why should anyone be expected to pay 750 quid? As stated, landlord isn't going to use that money to replace carpet.

[Jeremy]

Yeah I already agreed that the OP shouldn't need to pay anywhere near that.

"you shouldn't just damage stuff and get away scot free" was in response to "asking for any money from previous tenant is just pure greed". A large stain is above and beyond expected wear-and-tear.

Anyway don't want to get into this debate... good luck to the OP, I hope you manage to agree on a reasonable amount.

[PokerTime]

Wow, looking at that stain, there is no way it requires an entire new carpet.

Here is what the law says Amy about deposits;

Within 14 days of paying your deposit, your landlord is required to give you details about how your deposit is protected, including:

contact details of the tenancy deposit scheme;

contact details of the landlord or agent;

how to apply for the release of the deposit;

information explaining the purpose of the deposit; and

what to do if there is a dispute about the deposit.

Did they do this?

Also the check in report should be checked and signed by you on the day you move in. Three months down the line (and only after you ask) I think will play heavily in your favour. You have no way of knowing if the stain was there ir not when you moved in, because youe landlord didn't provide you with the condition details for you to agree and sign.

[amydown]

Thank you so much for this everyone. The estate agents didn't provide us with the information regarding the deposit scheme and with all of the failings on their part with respect to the timeliness (or lack of) of check-in report and other issues, I have submitted a formal letter of complain to them and will be filing a complaint with the OFT and ARLA.

I have also suggested two alternative solutions to the landlord regarding the carpet stain and also offered to pay a contribution towards the cost of new carpet in the future as a third option. If these are not accepted, I have formally stated that we will start the formal process of dispute resolution through the deposit protection scheme (if and when the agents tell me who that is!)

I shall report back. This was a one-off and temporary arrangement for us but I feel really strongly about making as much noise as possible with this one. Brought back all the horrible memories from when I used to rent as a student and a struggling graduate trainee all those years ago!

[numbers]

amydown - typical that they didn't provide you with the check-in report on time but presented you with the check-out report pretty sharpish and a bill for the carpet!

sorry to be cynical but are you sure its the landlord asking for the carpet money and not the letting agency trying to pull a fast one?

def fight this tooth & nail! really hope you succeed, it certainly sounds like their treatment of you has been pretty shoddy.

[Jeremy]

amydown Wrote:

----------------------

> I have also suggested two alternative solutions to

> the landlord regarding the carpet stain and also

> offered to pay a contribution towards the cost of

> new carpet in the future

Sounds very reasonable to me. Good luck.

[tfwsoll]

Just a correction to Poker Time's post. Since 6th April 2012, deposits must be protected in a registered scheme within 30 days of receipt.