The 2014 World Cup thread

[david_carnell]

Second the English overseas issue. Week-in, week-out experience of playing different football, in different climates and in a different culture cannot be overvalued.

And yet not a single player in the squad does. I would think we are unique in that.

[Jah Lush]

I concur. Just look at what it's done for Gareth Bale at Real Madrid and he's still only in his early 20s so he will get even better.

[El Pibe]

Perhaps we can test for the footballing gene and ban from anyone who tests positive from having their kid in Wales or Scotland?

[Jeremy]

How many English players are good enough to get into the top Spanish/Italian/German teams?

[Jah Lush]

Good question and I'm struggling to find an answer.

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> What I am saying is that it is you

> Liverpool supporters saying supporters of other

> teams are only picking on him because he?s a

> Liverpool player

>

> ?I'm sure all other club supporters would be

> totally different if it was their player.?

>

> Ooh look ? there it is again

Sorry, can't just let that slide. What you said there is an utter fecking nonsense.

Saying you might react differently if this was an Arsenal player (in YOUR case), is pretty far from saying you're just picking on him because he's a Liverpool player.

I have never done the "poor us we get picked on" thing, so don't accuse me of it.

[DaveR]

Some ex player (I think it might have been Ballack) was recently quoted as saying "Italian, Dutch, German teams know how they want to play, but England don't". I don't think he was referring to particular teams, or teams under particular coaches, but speaking more generally, and I think he has a point.

I recently read that Robben, RVP and Sneijder played together in Dutch youth teams from their early teens, and although they then played at loads of different clubs in lots of different countries they don't have a problem playing 'Dutch style' for the national team. The Spanish were successful when they basically adopted the Barcelona style, regardless of the personnel, and I also recently read that Belgium credit a fair amount of their recent success to the fact that some years ago the national coach basically insisted that all Belgian club academy teams should play 433. Joachim Low tweaked the traditional German style but he had a basic style that all the players understood to start from.

England don't have their own set way of playing that all the players understand, partly because the traditional England approach was more about attitude than tactical nous (or at best it was standard, boring 442), and partly because Premiership clubs mostly have foreign managers and foreign players who are constantly changing, so no consistency.

If we want to do better we need a coach who is prepared to define a tactical approach and pick the players to fit the system. The best players will be able to adapt.

[MrBen]

Biting someone has deeply animalistic connotations. It's just a bit deranged in a way that other stuff isn't.

[Otta]

Bit moving on, I've said for years that England need more players abroad, but the answer to jeremy's question is not a lot.

Michael Owen was our star when he went to Real Madrid, and despite actually doing pretty well for goals when he was played, he never really made it there.

Macca did well but too late in his career, same for Beckham really. We need young players coming through these teams.

[StraferJack]

sorry otta I didn't think I was accusing you of anything major or serious - was just something I was picking up from posts here and elsewhere. No offence meant and if I got wrong end of stick I hold my hands up

[Otta]

I'm in a foul mood today so maybe got a bit defensive, but I stand by my point that despite obviously not wanting Suarez banned for Liverpool this season, I don't think I've ever (about this or anything else) played any kind of Liverpool victim card. And if he played for any of the teams people on here support, I imagine they'd also not want to see him banned for their clubs.

That doesn't mean I'm saying that biting someone is acceptable, it's clearly not. But (and I would say this for any player of ANY club), I think you're on very dangerous ground if FIFA start banning players from their domestic leagues for things that happen on international duty. I also IMAGINE (don't know obviously) that the Premier League wouldn't take too kindly to it.

[StraferJack]

"And if he played for any of the teams people on here support, I imagine they'd also not want to see him banned for their clubs. "

well i can answer that - I would want shot of him if he was at Arsenal. In fact when we "bid" for him last year this is what I said

"It?s one of the most heated discussions I can recall amongst Arsenal fans.

Those of us who suggest we don?t want someone of his character at the club are shouted at for lacking ambition. You just know those same people were at front of the Q condemning him when he played for Liverpool

I don?t think he will sign for Arsenal, and I hope he doesn?t"

[Jah Lush]

DaveR Wrote:

> If we want to do better we need a coach who is

> prepared to define a tactical approach and pick

> the players to fit the system. The best players

> will be able to adapt.

The last England coach to do that was Glenn Hoddle. He got us playing a certain way and within a system that suited the players best and got us playing a more attractive continental style and we looked good playing that way and then... he opened his mouth, said something stupid and it was all over. We've gone backward ever since.

[????]

I agree Jah - I think it's a real pity Hoddle's other 'views' stopped his England career

[Otta]

I also agree. Although "We've gone backward ever since." isn't really true. We did better than Hoddle's England in the following two tournaments. We've gone backwards since then.

[maxxi]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> I like Roy,... not convinced. Lovely chap

> though.

So was Glenn Roeder

StraferJack Wrote:

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it's

> clearly not just "the england manager" that's the

> problem is it?

Not 'just' no, but it's a big part of it. Successful club managers in this country have worked out how to be in control but also how to bring out the best in the players under them. The problem always seems to be that the players are scared, uncertain, too timid or too rash; that they are sometimes like rabbits-in-headlights and seem to lose concentration and focus as though in a daze whatever system they play - that they are just not at ease in the England shirt. The next manager (cause it isn't Hodgson) needs to be able to solve this.

david_carnell Wrote:

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>....or just accept we are a

> second/third rate team.

I think this would be a positive step if the press and FA would grasp the fact of it. Accept that the success of the PL is built largely on foreign players and ban all players and staff from giving interviews where they say England have a 'good chance' of winning ANYthing. Make them say they don't expect to win but they'll give it a shot - a good dose of committed pessimism might be just the job.

[El Pibe]

bugger couldn't resist

 

[Otta]

That's a good one. I saw one earlier of a grounded Suarez being grabed around the neck by those poles dog catchers use, and and open cage van behind him.

[titch juicy]

Luis Suarez is desperate not to be suspended for the latter stages of the World Cup where there's the possibility of Uruguay facing the Germans; he wants to try the shoulder of Lahm.

[El Pibe]

:D they're getting worse!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

A little aside (with reference to Cote D'Ivoire, Holland, etc):

If Scotland win their independence, will we be known as the Disunited Kingdom?

[Jeremy]

TBH if Scotland become independent, we may as well just completely dissolve the union. Wales don't really bring much to the table. NI has always been more hassle than it's worth.

(being slightly facetious here...)

[El Pibe]

Some of a Kingodm?

Then we can make jokes about going back to the old SOAK.

[Parkdrive]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "And if he played for any of the teams people on

> here support, I imagine they'd also not want to

> see him banned for their clubs. "

>

> well i can answer that - I would want shot of him

> if he was at Arsenal. In fact when we "bid" for

> him last year this is what I said

>

> "It?s one of the most heated discussions I can

> recall amongst Arsenal fans.

>

> Those of us who suggest we don?t want someone of

> his character at the club are shouted at for

> lacking ambition. You just know those same people

> were at front of the Q condemning him when he

> played for Liverpool

>

> I don?t think he will sign for Arsenal, and I hope

> he doesn?t"

And I think I recall saying I didn't want him at Arsenal because of his antics, and my opinion hasn't changed. I'm sure Barca and Real are thinking twice now, or see it as good way of getting him on the cheap because they will argue his temprament is suspect and may face being without out him for a third of the season as a result of daft behaviour on the pitch. And by the way Otta, a Liverpool season ticket holder at work said to me today Suarez should be banned from ALL football for a year. Not all Liverpool fans think it's just a silly thing to brush aside. That's 3 times he's biten an opponent. The guy is clearly deranged.

[El Pibe]

we took on a bloke who pushed over a ref, and was happy with that, and a bloke involved in a (possibly) racist assault, which i wasn't.

I wouldn't want Suarez at west ham, not that BFS would have the faintest idea what to do with him, so moot point really.