Cross River Tram plan is scrapped - do we care?

[PeckhamRose]

Not personally. The whole idea of it seemed preposterous, carving up huge areas of quite interesting bits and some very historical bits of Peckham, in order to plot a tram route.

But what do you think?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7712002.stm

[SimonM]

I think TfL should employ people who can write in English:-

"TfL said it aimed to avoid redundancies but a spokesman said the organisation was looking at "de-layering of management" and was looking at "reductions in headcount","

[Michael Palaeologus]

I think that economic regeneration follows fixed track transport linkages, economic regeneration rule number 1.

Peckham will never get off its arse if it isnt properly linked to the rest of the city. Old buildings are somewhat useless when there is no money in the town itself.

What comes first, buildings or people?

[PeckhamRose]

Tough question. The egg? No, the chicken?

Ummm.

Peckham IS properly linked.

It has a TRAIN line. TWO stations (Queens Road and Peckham Rye).

And those stations go everywhere. What's the point in knocking down housing and buildings. It would then become just one big transport hub for busses trains and trams. An airport would be nice though.

I guess all this is old argument, so sorry for bringing it up again.

"Peckham Vision" needs new eye test.

[AcedOut]

Peckham Pye -> London Bridge in 10mins and every 15mins or so. I don't think a tram is going to be faster than that!!?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I'm with PR. I think the terminus was always the flaw in the plan.

[ratty]

Toke on my Wacky!

[HonaloochieB]

Meh.

[AllforNun]

What a toss pot this floppy haired blue boy is.

This is why this country has got such bleeding appalling transport offerings. Infrastructure projects should be ring fenced from political parties. He will now go and spend all this money he is supposedly saving on a marketing drive to prove the Con's are electable.

How much money have they wasted on this project, its f.ck..n ridiculous. Why on earth do we pay our taxes for this stuff to be diverted and spent on pet projects for political vote rigging.

Trams are bloody brilliant quick, punctual, never held up by traffic or effected by the weather and have good green credentials. Also the Tram stations are so simple to use. ..... so really you should all care.

[*Bob*]

This news has come as a terrible surprise.

One can only hope that the other important transport projects currently earmarked for South London (unicycle track connecting Mitcham with Colliers Wood; aerial runway from 'Chariots' Streatham to the Vauxhall one) do not suffer the same fate.

[AllforNun]

Ah so that is where Boris found the ?500000 to pay of the Sir Ian Bair who....er ....resigned ? Well done Blondie

[INDOMIE]

yes we do rose.....quite a few of my neighbours have left peckham as a result and we've spent over ?19m on this scheme already...

It's really sad that Peckham Vision pushed so hard for art over a major transport investment (we could have had both).....I know their stance upset a lot of people as the terminus had never even been decided! I guess now we'll be able to see just what this vision of theirs actually looks like!

Not sure why people think the train service is enough to revitalise peckham......it only offers an orbital service (or it will with the ELLX) when we will loose the Victoria/London Bridge service. The CRT offered direct access into the CENTRE of the capital, and through North Peckham and the Aylesbury Estates which really needed the investment.

I'm with AllforNun, Bob & Michael on this....just where do the fares of south londoners actually get spent because it doesnt seem to be where its needed the most!

[Nero]

I really do not think a tram would revitalise Peckham. It sounds like it should, especially when the accompanied by lower case exclamatory words like 'revive', 'vibrant', 'diversity', 'bustling' and, er 'tram', and by pie charts and smiling faces, but it wouldn't.

[INDOMIE]

what was the alternative nero? and what evidence are your claims based upon?

[snorky]

IIRC , there was a small but vocal lobby was quite opposed to the siting of the depot, apparently 200 "artists" would be displaced if the tram came to roost each night in SE15 - one of the leaders of this group does occasionally post on here.

[woofmarkthedog]

SimonM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think TfL should employ people who can write in

> English:-

>

> "TfL said it aimed to avoid redundancies but a

> spokesman said the organisation was looking at

> "de-layering of management" and was looking at

> "reductions in headcount","

From this it sounds like they have a case of "NITS" & it's a classic case really , you see when the head count is this bad a certain amount of managed de-layering is required.

We find an organized and strategic implementation of implements around the region by skilled equipment operators facilitates the requisite De-layering required ( a trip to the barbers to me and you)

Thus the strategic target is meet and head count is reduced,however a line managed monitoring program is needed to keep in check unauthorized expansion which would result in a further round of de-layering process

Yes all very simple when plain english is applied to the situation we now find ourselves in and may I add inherited from the previous incumbent

Yeehhhsss

[Xena Worried prince]

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> IIRC , there was a small but vocal lobby was quite

> opposed to the siting of the depot, apparently 200

> "artists" would be displaced if the tram came to

> roost each night in SE15 - one of the leaders of

> this group does occasionally post on here.

Dear Snorky

Come on Explain, whom do you mean ?

[Michael Palaeologus]

I think he meant what he said. There was opposition to the Tram based on the disrution that the building of a terminus would cause.

Personally, I would put general economic regeneration before art.

[Xena Worried prince]

Dear Mr MP - I didn't ask WHAT rather WHOM - They clue to the answer I hope Dear old Snorky can provide is in how the question is actually asked.

therefore I am looking for the leaders name from the group with the question

"Come on 'explain', whom do you mean?" (try singing it so see if it helps) :))

[snorky]

dexy midnight runners ( the latter stages)

[Xena Worried prince]

What - they are responsible for the tram depot NOT being constructed ?? ::o

Come on.... (dare I repeat myself ? )

[INDOMIE]

it was always 'peckham vision' quoted in the papers - and it was always NEGATIVE!

[Huguenot]

Not sure where you're going with this 'name names' thing Xena?

It was common knowledge that there was a group of artists in residence who would lose their studios if they were knocked down for the tram.

There were also a whole host of other lobbyists who didn't want the tram - some because they wanted the money elsewhere, some because it was going to knock down a load of heritage buildings, some because they didn't want public money being spent on transport, some because they don't like paying taxes full stop.

The forum's an anonymous zone if people want it to be, I don't see why you want to deprive people of that?

[LuvPeckham]

Isn't the Peckham Vision group fronted by Eileen... maybe that is what Zena was eluding to !:-S

[Huggers]

I went to one of the meetings re the tram. As far as I remember, the artists thing was quite a peripheral issue, the main one being the destruction of a fairly newly built large housing estate behind Rye Lane- the one that is built with 'closes' a bit brookside-like- where the trams would be stored .

I think maybe there's a difference between 'terminus' (thriving station like interchange thing bringing life to Peckham which everyone would love) and depot (big garage physically removing big part of town centre, think roads behind kings cross,possibly a bit wastelandish).

There was no voting at this meeting and I personally never heard another thing about it.

If the government really wants to do something they are not going to be stopped by a group of artists- look at Heathrow's planned runway and what they are prepared to run roughshod over to get that done.

I expect lack of funding is behind it, after all its the whole tram system that s in doubt, not where to put the depot.

Having said that, Peckham was saved from channel rail link destruction and that was a very good thing.