Save this tree - due for removal tomorrow

[JMT]

I have just seen that a beautiful old beech tree on the corner of Linden Grove and Evelina Road in Nunhead is scheduled to be cut down tomorrow. This tree is in a Conservation Area and if it wasn't on Southwark Council owned land, removal would never have been permitted. Please email designconservation@southwark.gov.uk if you would like to object to this felling. Hopefully it is not too late.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi JMT, I know all about this tree. This is a Holm Oak. A few years ago it caused the subsidence to the Victorian Terrace to the South of it. They had major cracks and were underpinned, works were done to the tree. New large cracks have appeared in the houses. A dig has been carried out looking to establish for sure what is causing the second round of subsidence. It has been proven that the cracks are due to the tree as the roots of the tree were found in the dig pits. All other options have been investigated and unfortunately this tree needs to be removed. Discussions and investigations over this tree have been going on for years. Officers have tried to find a way to save it. The repairs to the houses have been put on hold until the tree is removed. The Holm Oak is on the list of trees with invasive roots. A new tree will be planted, but it won't be a Holm, Oak as we don't want to have this situation again. I spoke to one of the residents involved and what she has told me correlates exactly with the Officer I spoke to.

I agree it is an attractive tree and as soon as I spotted the notice, I emailed and then spoke to Officers about it. I do try my best to save trees where this is possible, asking officers to look at all other alternatives eg the Cherry tree on Peckham Rye Park. Unfortunately in this case all other options have been exhausted and it needs to go.

Renata

[JMT]

Hi Renata

Thanks for taking the time out to explain this. It really is a shame that its fate has been sealed. It gives great character to the area. Please could you tell me the planning reference number for the application for removal, as I can't find it on Southwark's website?

Thanks again

[Mattsoper]

I agree that it gives character to the area, JMT, but if I were the owners of the buildings next to it then I'm sure I'd want it gone too, given the subsidence problems it?s evidently causing. It's a shame to lose established trees that will take a lifetime to replace with anything of a similar size (though with less invasive roots) but sometimes there's no alternative.

Here?s a link to the planning application:

http://planningonline.southwark.gov.uk/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=9554232

[pipsky2008]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi JMT, I know all about this tree. This is a Holm

> Oak. A few years ago it caused the subsidence to

> the Victorian Terrace to the South of it. They had

> major cracks and were underpinned, works were done

> to the tree. New large cracks have appeared in the

> houses. A dig has been carried out looking to

> establish for sure what is causing the second

> round of subsidence. It has been proven that the

> cracks are due to the tree as the roots of the

> tree were found in the dig pits. All other options

> have been investigated and unfortunately this tree

> needs to be removed. Discussions and

> investigations over this tree have been going on

> for years. Officers have tried to find a way to

> save it. The repairs to the houses have been put

> on hold until the tree is removed. The Holm Oak is

> on the list of trees with invasive roots. A new

> tree will be planted, but it won't be a Holm, Oak

> as we don't want to have this situation again. I

> spoke to one of the residents involved and what

> she has told me correlates exactly with the

> Officer I spoke to.

>

> I agree it is an attractive tree and as soon as I

> spotted the notice, I emailed and then spoke to

> Officers about it. I do try my best to save trees

> where this is possible, asking officers to look at

> all other alternatives eg the Cherry tree on

> Peckham Rye Park. Unfortunately in this case all

> other options have been exhausted and it needs to

> go.

>

>

> Renata

I think these fellings of trees on the basis of subsidence are highly questionable. Could you provide a link, Dr. Hamvas, to the list that says the Holm Oak has invasive roots. Thank you

[spider69]

What would your response be if it was YOUR house that was under threat?

[PokerTime]

Doesn't sound questionable at all, but rather the end of a long process where all things have been tried without success. Underpinning is no mean feat after all.

[KidKruger]

The council still plant trees that will develop large root systems too close to existing houses, never learn it seems, just perpetuate the stupidity.

[Jeremy]

I think a more reasonable OP might have been to ask if anybody knows why this tree is being removed, rather than automatically objecting to it! It's a serious issue if you own a property suffering from this kind of damage.

[Alex K]

Ms Hamvas, I too shall be grateful for a link to any published list of UK trees with invasive roots. Your post makes me think that Southwark Council maintain such a list. I hope that you will both share it and let us know the sources drawn on in compiling it.

[Sporthuntor]

Quick Wikipedia search does not throw up any root issues as far as I can see, however it seems to be an "alien invader" that damages biodiversity in the uk (bad) as well as an Top 3 tree for truffle cultivation whose acorns are a fundamental for pigs used to make jamon iberico (good!)

The jury is still out for me!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_ilex

[PokerTime]

Holm Oak roots can extend far beyond the canopy. A look at the photo shows that roots are more than capable of penetrating under the building.

Edited to add;

Some detailed information here by people who know what they are talking about.... (wiki is often not the best source of anything).

http://www.globalcarbonproject.org/global/pdf/pep/Canadell_etal_1999_StructureAnd%20DynamicsOfTheRootSystem.pdf

[KidKruger]

I posted a whole ago about a tree outside my neighbours, planted by council 8ft from his front door. It's grown to 50ft and his front yard wall leaned increasingly as the pavement resembled something from the Kyoto 'quake.

The council were adamant it was nothing to do with the tree. Digging out the foundations under the wall showed roots as thick as your arm going towards the houses nearest - as if the roots were seriously expected to avoid the house.

It was cut down 3 weeks ago and I've a ton of firewood.

No-one with half a brain plants a tree with so much potential to grow so close to a house, unless it's the council who don't give a flying feck and will do this to other people's houses, with no consultation.

[Kwallers]

Try NHBC website - outlines trees with high, medium and low water demand. Anything high, such as a Holm Oak, is never suited to being in close proximity to houses. Even up to 10m away the root system is such that it can cause significant damage to properties - of you were looking to build a new house in such a situation you would be looking at foundations going around 1.5m deep, which is much much deeper than anything a victorian property would be founded on, hence the damage. As much as I like to see the trees serious consideration should be given to what is being planted by the council but from experience the department dealing with landscaping don't typically have much awareness of the damage they can do with an ill thought out specification

[edcam]

Pretty stupid to object to the removal of a tree that's causing damage. Nobody wants to lose trees but some seem to think these incidents are due to wilful hatred of the things.

I don't think these days any are (or should be)removed without good reason.

[cle]

I can't find anywhere on the Southwark website to actually search for a TPO - just to apply to do works?

Is there a database or list, so I can check one?

[Mustard]

There are so many self seeding sycamores in these parts, would love advice on how to get rid of them.

[KidKruger]

sycamores you can to dig out. I dug out 30ft trees a few years ago, the pit for each tree root was 6ft wide x 3ft deep and I poisoned the root which I left there and sealed with plastic.

[Mattsoper]

One last pic of the Nunhead Lane holm oak before it went.

[nunhead_man]

Seeing that makes me wonder about the other tree there which looks the same and looks as close?

[Otta]

Sporthuntor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Quick Wikipedia search does not throw up any root

> issues as far as I can see, however it seems to be

> an "alien invader" that damages biodiversity in

> the uk (bad) as well as an Top 3 tree for truffle

> cultivation whose acorns are a fundamental for

> pigs used to make jamon iberico (good!)

>

> The jury is still out for me!

>

> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_ilex

Why is the jury out for you? There aren't a lot of free range pigs around Nunhead unless the place has changed a lot since I was last there.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi again all,

the database of trees with invasive roots is for arborists and not something that's on the Southwark website, I don't know if it's something that's available for all to view, but I'll look into this. The other tree in the picture is also a Holm Oak. There was an attempt a few years ago to stem the growth of these trees. (I don't know the details, the resident told me about this) What is not clear from the picture that even though the trees were the same age, the second one is significantly smaller as the measures were a success for this tree and it is further away from the Nunhead Lane terrace of houses that have been affected by tree roots.

Renata

[cle]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi again all,

> the database of trees with invasive roots is for

> arborists and not something that's on the

> Southwark website, I don't know if it's something

> that's available for all to view, but I'll look

> into this. The other tree in the picture is also a

> Holm Oak. There was an attempt a few years ago to

> stem the growth of these trees. (I don't know the

> details, the resident told me about this) What is

> not clear from the picture that even though the

> trees were the same age, the second one is

> significantly smaller as the measures were a

> success for this tree and it is further away from

> the Nunhead Lane terrace of houses that have been

> affected by tree roots.

> Renata

Sorry, I think we meant a database of trees in Southwark with TPOs, searchable I assume by post code or street.

The Southwark website has application forms if one wanted to make changes impacting a TPO tree, but how does one establish if it has a TPO or not in the first place?

[Mustard]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> sycamores you can to dig out. I dug out 30ft

> trees a few years ago, the pit for each tree root

> was 6ft wide x 3ft deep and I poisoned the root

> which I left there and sealed with plastic.

I was hoping to kill them before they reached that height. When they are just little saplings, swaying in the wind. Wanted to know if poison would work from above.

[intexasatthe moment]

"The Southwark website has application forms if one wanted to make changes impacting a TPO tree, but how does one establish if it has a TPO or not in the first place? "

I've looked for this unsuccesfully ,in the past . Would be great if there was on on line .