Yummy mummy vs tart

[Robert Poste's Child]

What does this have to do with ED issues? Other than the Guardian-Daily Mail kneejerk responses which do seem to be a local characteristic, often within the same person.

[newboots]

Loz, if you want a debate about feminist writers and The Guardian then you need to start your own thread in the Lounge. Op has nothing to do with The Guardian. You have gone off on a baffling tangent.

[Loz]

This is a tangent, and I'll stop now, but just a response to SJ...

I agree that it is a different sexism to the DM, but there is definitely a 'two sides of the same coin' to them. DM's tabloid-style 'phoar' style versus the Gruin's faux-academic approach. (Though it is always interesting to note that the DM's has the most female readers in the UK. Not sure what that says, though).

But, Tanya Gold and Julie Bindel are pretty compelling evidence on their own. As is just about every article in the short, dreadful history of Jessica Valetti as well - her 'mansplaining' article was pretty dire. And Suzanne Moore just seems to hate everyone. The Gruin's general movement away from the whole concept that 'feminism is about choice' for women is pretty bad. Their hounding of certain women like Louise Mensch when she declared herself a feminist can be pretty unpleasant. Their general ignoring of male and gay/lesbian domestic violence victims is pretty bad.

Do you really think there isn't a thick streak of sexism and hypocrisy in the Guardian op-eds?

[Otta]

I took the first post as written by someone who thinks the YM label is silly, not as someone who would earnestly use it, hence my silly response to it.

Maybe I got it wrong, but didn't think it was the usual YM type post.

Clearly I'm naive today.

[Saffron]

I liked your silly response. ;-)

[jamespetts]

Saila Wrote:

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> .. another dismissive, derogatory phrase for a

> woman, with no equivalent for a man. yawn. boring

> sexism at its best.

May I suggest the male equivalent of "dishy daddy"?

[Saila]

this is actually turning into a fascinating and amusingly blatant thread.

Mother - edf's version "yummy mummy"

Whore - edf's version "tart"

Bitch - edf's version "guardian-reading-feminist"

which box is it to be 'girls'?

:)

[Jeremy]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> And...the ridiculous footwear that women are

> expected to wear in order to look 'fashionable' is

> the modern day equivalent of foot-binding!

Are men really to blame for that? People can wear whatever they want..

[Sophron]

So did I :-)

[LadyDeliah]

The high shoes thing is supposed to be something to do with making our bum look higher and perkier, which apparently triggers the primal sex centre in most guys' brains.

So yeh, guys, it's totally your fault!

[Loz]

Saila Wrote:

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> this is actually turning into a fascinating and amusingly blatant thread.

>

> Bitch - edf's version "guardian-reading-feminist"

You are putting words into my mouth that I did not - and would not - use. So, I would change that to:

Sexist idiot - edf's version "guardian-reading-feminist"

[Jeremy]

I have to say Loz... not really quite sure what you're getting at here... don't know why you thought the conversation had "moved to the depths of the Guardian-style-feminist opinion writer".

The term - taken at face value - wouldn't be so bad, but when it's used as a criticism I think that says a lot about a person's views.

[Loz]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I have to say Loz... not really quite sure what

> you're getting at here... don't know why you

> thought the conversation had "moved to the depths

> of the Guardian-style-feminist opinion writer".

>

> The term - taken at face value - wouldn't be so

> bad, but when it's used as a criticism I think

> that says a lot about a person's views.

Really going onto a tangent here.

I believe in equality for everyone, and hate racism and sexism - and I'll not apologise for that. If that says a lot about me then, well, excellent, really. And some of that is at odds with the Guardian's iffy viewpoint. Why do you have a problem with that?

[LadyDeliah]

Julie Bindell is an asexual arsehole who hates women who enjoy (mostly heterosexual) sex as she seems to believe the post-modern feminist shit that all heterosexual sex is rape.

And don't get me started on her infantilisation of sex workers, who can never be anything other than a victim in her eyes, despite many sex workers making intelligent choices about their chosen profession and controlling their working environment more than most female workers in mainstream jobs are able to.

[Loz]

Well, LD, I have to say I didn't see that coming! Not only all you say, but her views on transsexuals are particularly repugnant. But Bindel is far from the only one at the Gruin with entirely patronising views of sex workers.

I'm glad someone sees through the Guardian's shiny 'it's OK, my bigotry is so right on' status.

[Jeremy]

Loz, I was really referring to your first post on this thread. People were expressing disdain for the term "yummy mummy", and you responded by suggesting the thread had taken some sort of extreme-feminist turn. And I can't figure out why you thought that.

Didn't mean to drag out the Guardian argument at all..

[Loz]

Ah, sorry Jeremy - I misunderstood. Your post came straight under a different post of mine, so I assumed it was referring to that.

Actually, it was Saila's post that made me think 'that's so Guardian'. His/her later attempt to maliciously misrepresent my comment for effect only reinforced that feeling.

[KalamityKel]

I often find those that use terms such as being discussed (Yummy Mummy/Tart) don't use it necessarily in the context it is interpreted and many don't truly know (as with the many many many phrases used today whether on the "sexist" or "racist" spectrum) the proper definitions. Agree with me or (most probably) not it becomes slang with not much thought behind it - something casually used as a description of something where by most can understand without much discussion. Are we offended by the use of "chav"? On the surface "chav" is used so loosely yet is offensive below the surface.

Those that tend to be offended by such words then in return make judgments on the individual using it which can be just as inaccurate. A circle difficult to break.

[Alan Medic]

I wonder what the user called Yummy Mummy will think if she ever reads this thread?

[LadyDeliah]

I'd be insulted to be called a yummy mummy, with all of the connotations associated with the term. I'd much rather be a tart.

[Otta]

Good post from KalamityKel, I think you're spot on.

[Loz]

Agree with KK also. It's a interesting line to tread - do you allow those words to fall into casual usage and lose their 'power' or do you maintain them as 'bad' words with power to hurt? The gay community seems quite adept at adopting abusive words aimed at them and taming them.

But it's worth noting that there is a big difference between 'Yummy Mummy' and 'tart', in that the former, I believe, was actually coined by those 'aspiring' to such status, but is now used disparagingly. Bit like 'macho', perhaps.

[Jeremy]

Context is everything.

[Otta]

And geography. "Tart" is very commonly used in Liverpool especially by the older generation. "How's your tart?" (meaning your wife or girlfriend) wouldn't raise an eyebrow from said woman.

An older bloke in my then local once said it to me, and then explained it to me when he saw my jaw drop.

[*Bob*]

I've been monitoring jackangel's contributions carefully over the last few months - and have now come to my conclusion.

Bell-end.