Palestinian PR

[steveo]

It seems to me that every time a Palestinian representative gets on the radio they set their cause back years with their spittle flecked rants.

Once a sympathiser, I've held Israel in contempt for some time but I'm now back on their team

Hamas et al desperately need a PR firm/ cool headed spokesman

[david_carnell]

I think even Bell Pottinger might struggle with this one.

[Jeremy]

How about Max Cl... oh hang on...

Totally know what you mean steveo, but at the same time it's to get behind Israel when their answer to most situations appears to be an air strike.

[Otta]

What Jeremy said.

The whole situation is too complicated for me, but I was saddened but not surprised to hear Benjamin Netanyahu immediately respond to the discovery of those 3 teen's bodies with "we're going to crush them" type statements.

Grow the fuck up!

[Parkdrive]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How about Max Cl... oh hang on...

>

> Totally know what you mean steveo, but at the same

> time it's to get behind Israel when their answer

> to most situations appears to be an air strike.

Indeed and as a result losing any moral high ground they aspire to. Some of their actions have been no better than those by terrorist organisations they denounce. But while they continue to have the support of the world police force, aka USA, they'll continue in the same vein.

[womanofdulwich]

steveo you were listening to the Today programme too? Just feel like leaving them all too it, sometimes it feels like they live to hate.

[steveo]

I wouldn't want to be trapped in a lift with him

[????]

The Israeeli actions are often (very often) despicable and the situation is worsening BUT

...they are surrounded by countries many of whom say that say they have no right to exist, and should be wiped off the face of the earth including one (Iran - predictably much loved and defended as a victim by many on the extreme left) that was/is developing nuclear capabilty

..Since Israel came into exuistence they have been invaded twice with no warning whatsoever by several naeighbours

..until recently Israel was one of the only places where an Arab man/woman actually had a vote

...the standard of living for palestinian-israeli citizens is still above most of their neighbours

..they've been bomded and terriorised into a siege state and mentality

It's a horrible situation and a despair of much of what Israel does, but many on left generally has them down as baddies in the simplistic world of white and black hatted cowboys that they inhabit.......

[Parkdrive]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> steveo you were listening to the Today programme

> too? Just feel like leaving them all too it,

> sometimes it feels like they live to hate.

Israelis or Palestinians? Let's not forget that much of the situation in the middle east lays at the door of many of the Western powers, UK included.

[????]

Very true PD

[steveo]

Troof ????

'Western powers' should be prefaced by 'well meaning' before we enter into a bout of self-flagellation

[vgrant]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Israeeli actions are often (very often)

> despicable and the situation is worsening BUT

>

> ...they are surrounded by countries many of whom

> say that say they have no right to exist, and

> should be wiped off the face of the earth

> including one (Iran - predictably much loved and

> defended as a victim by many on the extreme left)

> that was/is developing nuclear capabilty

> ..Since Israel came into exuistence they have been

> invaded twice with no warning whatsoever by

> several naeighbours

> ..until recently Israel was one of the only places

> where an Arab man/woman actually had a vote

> ...the standard of living for palestinian-israeli

> citizens is still above most of their neighbours

> ..they've been bomded and terriorised into a siege

> state and mentality

>

>

> It's a horrible situation and a despair of much of

> what Israel does, but many on left generally has

> them down as baddies in the simplistic world of

> white and black hatted cowboys that they

> inhabit.......

One of the worst features of the Israel/Palestine debate outside the area itself is the use selective nuggets of information to back up a pre-existing opinion, rather than using the range of information available to come to a reasoned opinion.

[Otta]

Spot on Quids, and PD.

And you really can't see it ever ending.

[Otta]

vgrant, are you accusing Quids of doing that? Really?

[vgrant]

What do you think Otta? A veiled insult that could lead to a percieved slight or an observation on the massed myopia that fogs any useful discussion of the middle east realpolitik ?

[Otta]

I think Quids' post was fair, and that anyone from outside of the situation that takes a firm side is a bit of a muppet.

[steveo]

I'd say the 'range of information' goes back several thousand years so that it is almost impossible to come to a 'reasoned opinion' and we end up blindly backing horses, hand wringing on the sidelines or saying 'a plague on both your houses.'

[StraferJack]

The thrust of quids point is fair but instead of (predictably) pointing the finger at "the left" it would have been fairer if he had said "people on all sides"

Do people think reporting in this country of events is fair and balanced? Do peole think the long biograpical portraits of teh 3 Israeli kids who died at start of the week is teh same/different to the subsequent Palestinian kids who were murdered?

is it "left" to ask that question?

[steveo]

I'm not sure left and right exist any more.

But... the Israelis have been in the shit house with the chattering classes for thirty years or so now but I reckon the tide is turning.

[david_carnell]

By "chattering classes" do you mean anyone who bothers to read anything about it?

[Parkdrive]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Troof ????

>

> 'Western powers' should be prefaced by 'well

> meaning' before we enter into a bout of

> self-flagellation

No it shouldn't as I don't believe they were well meaning. Many of the actions taken by "Western Powers" were taken purely out of self interest rather than anything else

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The thrust of quids point is fair but instead of

> (predictably) pointing the finger at "the left" it

> would have been fairer if he had said "people on

> all sides"

True dat, but I tend to try and ignore any mention of left in Quids' posts because largely it is shorthand for something he can't be arsed typing and even more largely it's to see if f you or may be DC will bite, which he likes.

[vgrant]

Parkdrive Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> steveo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Troof ????

> >

> > 'Western powers' should be prefaced by 'well

> > meaning' before we enter into a bout of

> > self-flagellation

>

>

> No it shouldn't as I don't believe they were well

> meaning. Many of the actions taken by "Western

> Powers" were taken purely out of self interest

> rather than anything else

Perfidious Albion. Blood on its hands.

[steveo]

'Chattering classes,' is a hackneyed expression verging on meaningless I agree. People who read and talk about it. Small 'L' liberal? The intelligentsia? Forumites? I dunno. Do you know?

What do you call Western powers?' Me, you, us? I'm well meaning, I don't know about you.

It would be nice to be able to blame Blair for the bloody mess but sadly I'm not sure we can

[Parkdrive]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'Chattering classes,' is a hackneyed expression

> verging on meaningless I agree. People who read

> and talk about it. Small 'L' liberal? The

> intelligentsia? Forumites? I dunno. Do you know?

>

> What do you call Western powers?' Me, you, us? I'm

> well meaning, I don't know about you.

>

> It would be nice to be able to blame Blair for the

> bloody mess but sadly I'm not sure we can

The western powers includes the UK, which I've mentioned previoulsy, and you already knew that. UK Foreign policy going back way before Blair and the like is partly responsible for the sh*t storm in the middle east. To say the UK has in some way been like a beneficent uncle trying to correct a wayward nephew is utterly wrong, especially as it is their policy that has contributed to this mess. Other European countries have also contributed in some shape of form, as has the USofA. I don't accept the well meaning concept, most foreign policy is usually about what's best for us not those living in the country effected by it.