Palestinian PR

[Otta]

ETA: This is response to PD's post

And at the risk of repeating myself, no, I wouldn't suggest that at all. But I think it's been pretty much proven that they're not going to win in a fight.

I stand by all of my earlier comments, but Israel are no longer responding to rocket attacks, they are now full on trying to wipe Hamas out (and failing miserably). Netanyahu is looking more and more like a man that is actually enjoying this.

BUT, despite feeling this, I will still stand by my suggestion that if you strip away all the weaponry and get the two "sides" (not that they represent their people very well) in a room, neither of them would be interested in peace, and dare I say it, especially Hamas.

[Otta]

The Minkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Debunking Israel's 11 Main Myths about Gaza, Hamas

> and War Crimes

>

> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-i

> srael_b_5624401.html?1406545029&ncid=tweetlnkushpm

> g00000067

Good article.

[Parkdrive]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ETA: This is response to PD's post

>

> And at the risk of repeating myself, no, I

> wouldn't suggest that at all. But I think it's

> been pretty much proven that they're not going to

> win in a fight.

>

> I stand by all of my earlier comments, but Israel

> are no longer responding to rocket attacks, they

> are now full on trying to wipe Hamas out (and

> failing miserably). Netanyahu is looking more and

> more like a man that is actually enjoying this.

>

> BUT, despite feeling this, I will still stand by

> my suggestion that if you strip away all the

> weaponry and get the two "sides" (not that they

> represent their people very well) in a room,

> neither of them would be interested in peace, and

> dare I say it, especially Hamas.

And you think Israel are? Naive if you do

[Otta]

You just quoted my post which said "neither of them", so clearly I don't think that, no.

[????]

A more thoughtfull piece on 'social media' and this tradegy. Albeit with no solutions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hilary-stauffer/gaza-palestine-israel_b_5625088.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

[Otta]

Thanks for posting that, she's pretty much spot on IMO.

My wife pointed me at this today, which I also thought was good, and not condemning of either side

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/26/israel-gaza-war-self-defeating-less-not-more-secure (sorry it's guardian Quids)

[Loz]

This is possibly the best article I've read on the whole sorry mess. Though point 5 is a bit weird.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5902177/9-questions-about-the-israel-palestine-conflict-you-were-too

[Captain Marvel]

I could probably keep up with you northlondoner

[northlondoner]

Good, then don't cheapen an important debate with facetious remarks.

[Otta]

What are we debating?

[El Pibe]

i like to think we're debating how to put an end to this mostrous situation, rather than it being some declaration of side choosing.

anyway the guardian made a fair point http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/31/guardian-view-killing-children-gaza

I was listening to a radio interview with the (rather grown up) children of Pat Finucane yesterday. THey were incredibly eloquent and philosophical about the wohle situation and rather inspiring. It might be on rte catch up if anyone can be arsed to look.

But they finally got to the point where David Cameron apologised to them for the actions of the British State, Douglass Hogg essentially declaring open season on any lawyer representing republican paramlitiaries, and the undoubted collusion between british security services and the use of loyalists to do their dirty work.

Doubtless they thought it was acceptable, that the scourge of the IRA needed defeating even if that meant collateral damage on any of their interests or supporters (they weren't in any way IRA supporters but that's hardly the point), because we don't negotiate with terrorsits because they're evil, they want simply to kill us.

And so 25 years later we have the top representatives of all parties, including statesmen who had been those terrorsits, who of course negotiated, soberly addressing a wrong from the past with an unreserved apology. And this for a single murder, because murder eats away at the soul of a nation, because it makes us all less human.

Because it is morally reprehensible, because it's wrong.

[Otta]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i like to think we're debating how to put an end

> to this mostrous situation, rather than it being

> some declaration of side choosing.

Other than a couple of posts from you, I've not seen much in the way of "how to put an end to this".

And even if there was a good debate, it is at the end of the day, "pointless" (as you said on page 1).

[El Pibe]

fair enough, always go with your gut eh ;)

[Otta]

No, take an interest, take a huge interest.

But people "debating" it on here just makes me feel uncomfortable. It's like a bunch of pipe smokers in a gentleman's club discussing something so abstract to their existance that it just doesn't work for me.

[Otta]

And I was trying to big you up with the "couple of posts from you" comment by the way. It wasn't meant as dismissive.

[Otta]

Here's an interesting development.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28606099

[Captain Marvel]

Sorry nl I didn't realise you were in charge

[nashoi]

Apologies for going off topic and briefly switching wars, but the following is largely for the benefit of ???? and his known love of social media. See it does have a purpose after all.

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/07/31/selfie-addicted-russian-soldier-caught-ukrainian-territory-instagram-geo-tagging-0

[Otta]

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear. That soldier will probably be caught in some friendly fire in the not too distant future.

[El Pibe]

if we're shifting war, this was interesting http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/15/separatist-fighter-russia-eastern-ukraine-interview originally http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/25452387.html meaning it could be bollocks, but plausibly convincing bollocks

[david_carnell]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here's an interesting development.

>

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-286060

> 99

It gets more interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28609351

[Jah Lush]

This. Yes this.

http://thequietus.com/articles/15899-the-fat-white-family-slide-in-for-palestine

[Otta]

I was interested / surprised to read this in a BBC report.

"The IDF says 2,560 rockets and mortars fired from Gaza have landed in Israel since 8 July, and that its Iron Dome defence system has intercepted another 556 rockets."

Now I know the IDF may not be the most reliable source right now, but this prompted me to do some google searching, and it seems the iron dome isn't quite the absolute sheild people have described it as.

[david_carnell]

I think it only covers urban and military areas. i.e. if the missile is due to fall harmlessly onto some farmland they aren't going to waste ammo blowing it out of the sky.

[Jah Lush]

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag237/jahlushhead/PR_zps4af34421.jpg