Incident on the 343

[dulwichbloke]

In your opinion! A minority could be what? 5%? 10%? 20%? Isn't that "so many" in the context of dangerous road use?

[Sandperson]

Keef Wrote:

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> Why so unpleasant Horsebox, seriously? Had the bus

> driver gotten out and been hit would there be

> quite the same outrage? I wasn't backtracking, I

> was trying to explain myself. Sorry if that's

> pathetic. I really need to stop looking at this

> thread as I can't help responding, and am probably

> doing myself no favours, but I don't think you

> have really read what I have said right from my

> first post. You may not agree with me, but I still

> make no apologies. The driver was wrong, but the

> cyclist didn't let it drop did he?

I'm sorry Keef. I'm sure you aren't trying to upset but I have to say that I understand why the cyclist didn't let it drop. Just as this thread makes me angry your comments do too. There is a possibility the cyclist was in the wrong, there is a possibility the bus driver was in the wrong but at the end of the day it is more likely that the cyclist will come off worst. Basically, we can assume, the cyclist reacted in the way he did because he felt his safety had been threatened and I defy you or anyone else to not take the same course of action. I have been in situations on my bike where I have been close to being seriously injured. The drivers in these cases, whether they be bus drivers or car drivers, at WORST, might have got a dent in their vehicles whereas I could have lost a whole lot more. That has made me angry and confrontational in the past. Now, if that's out of line, I'm sorry but I felt justified in every situation and I am sure the cyclist in this case felt justified too.

[Horsebox]

I'm sure you're just trying to bait cyclists here so I'll just say yes, you are correct...blah blah blah, etc yawn.

[dulwichbloke]

Sandperson - why do you think it is acceptable to get "angry" and "confrontational" because you nearly get injured (you didn't say the driver was deliberately trying to hurt you)? That sounds like road rage. Is it ok to be angrily confrontational because you are on a bike, rather than driving a car?

[Horsebox]

dulwichbloke Wrote:

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> Sandperson - why do you think it is acceptable to

> get "angry" and "confrontational" because you

> nearly get injured (you didn't say the driver was

> deliberately trying to hurt you)? That sounds

> like road rage. Is it ok to be angrily

> confrontational because you are on a bike, rather

> than driving a car?

1/10 - must try harder.

[dulwichbloke]

On yer bike Horsebox!

I'll get me car.

[Keef]

Sandperson I'm not trying to bait or anything here, but this is what I don't get. Just say it had started with the driver of the bus almost hurting the cyclist. Why then would the cyclist ride along with the bus hitting the side of it? Surely that is just putting himself at more risk isn't it? That is my whole point, the riding along hitting the bus is what turned me against him in this story, otherwise I'd have probably been on his side.

[Keef]

if nothing else it should make for some interesting youtube clips.

We are the cyclists!

I do hope people will find that funny, it's not intended to start a ruck!

[*Bob*]

Perhaps the cyclist had been having an affair with the bus driver's wife - and things came to a head on that fateful morning?

Who knows.

[blinder999]

Keef Wrote:

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> We are the cyclists!

>

the first time, it was funny. The fourth time, it's a little tired.

[Keef]

Who posted it the second and third times?

[Sandperson]

dulwichbloke Wrote:

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> Sandperson - why do you think it is acceptable to

> get "angry" and "confrontational" because you

> nearly get injured (you didn't say the driver was

> deliberately trying to hurt you)? That sounds

> like road rage. Is it ok to be angrily

> confrontational because you are on a bike, rather

> than driving a car?

I don't think anywhere in my post I said it was 'acceptable', in fact I said I didn't know who was in the wrong and it could have been the cyclist. What I was trying to say, possibly in an an incoherent manner, was that if someone feels threatened they react in strange ways. I am sure that at all other times that cyclist is a law abiding citizen, something about the incident made them react in this way, and I would have thought it was fear. Right or wrong their was a perceived threat and a 'fight or flight' reflex kicked in.

I also have to add that I think it is sometimes necessary to be confrontational - not physically. I have had several encounters with drivers where they have been unaware that they have caused a near accident and they have apologised and thanked me for pointing it out to them. I don't know if you are a cyclist but feel free to join me on a ride at any point and I can show you some of the appauling driving AND cycling that goes on.

[blinder999]

Keef Wrote:

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> Who posted it the second and third times?

twice by you, once by your mate Crystal Clear, and once by '2sheds'

yawn

[Keef]

It wasn't you that got punched was it? I only ask because of everyone on this thread I'm really getting a bit of a personal vibe off of you. Sorry to bore you anyway.

[blinder999]

I find what you've posted quite offensive, and I don't think you're making light of the situation by repeatedly posting that Youtube clip - you're just stirring it up

[Keef]

That wasn't my intention! Christ, I don't even drive, I actually used to be a regular cyclist, I'm not trying to stir up a road war!

[*Bob*]

I don't know which I'd least rather be in London: a cyclist or a bus driver.

Admittedly the cyclist has a greater chance of not reaching work in one piece, but chances are, when he arrives, he won't have to spend the entire day sitting behind a perspex screen being shouted at by total strangers, wondering when the next fight will erupt in the office - and whether the Police might actually turn-up this time.

[Horsebox]

What about a bus driver that cycles to the depot in the morning?

[*Bob*]

Glutton for punishment.

[Jimbob]

keef i,m with you on this one. there,s obviously two opposing sides and the driver is getting as fair bit of stick for punching the cyclist, but is seems to me that every one is conveniently over looking the point that prior to geting punched( and for anyone looking for examples of violence being turned into humourous situations see the films of mr. tarantino) he in the words of the original poster "kicked in the front doors of the bus". maybe i was brought up differently to the rest of you all but in my eyes thats more that justification for responding in kind. someone riding alongside shouting and banging your bus, then kicking in the doors, whats he going to do next.......seems to me theres a certain degree of self-defence involved here on behalf of the driver, negate the threat, then get the hell out of there. but no he,s a bus driver, the other guys a cyclist so in the eyes of the self-rightous ed ,ers the drivers guilty.case dismissed.

[Reg]

Jimbob Wrote:

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> maybe i was brought up differently to the

> rest of you all but in my eyes thats more that

> justification for responding in kind.

Don't worry Jimbob, many people were brought up in the UK to believe that it is more important to protect property from damage than people from serious harm - indeed it permeates the entire justice and enforcement system, and you have company in Keef. That is the basis for your mistake: the bus driver was not "responding in kind", as this would have meant simply trashing the cycle. Not that there's any evidence of any property damage at all.

Seems no-one saw the incident start off, but in my mind the idea that any cyclist would be so enraged if he had not been dangerously fishtailed or barged into the gutter, is laughable. Clearly the driver had no confidence in his own driving standards else he would have called the police.

For anyone to take the slightest entertainment from the whole scene is disturbing. Where do you draw the line in tacitly approving violence? If the cyclist had been female and the driver had proceded to incapacitate and then rape her, would there also have been "that little bit in all of us" which found the situation amusing?

Let's face it, the British public has form on this (a teenage gang raping a girl on a packed train a couple of years back - cue newspapers rustling). I would have been ashamed to have ridden on that bus and not banged on the driver's window myself to get a full picture profile for the police.

I think none of those on here who take every opportunity to demonise cyclists have ever had the courage to front up to a white van man parked on a pedestrian crossing as the green man chimes.

[Jimbob]

mmmm,property damage, kicking in door,mmmmm

[PeckhamRose]

"I think none of those on here who take every opportunity to demonise cyclists have ever had the courage to front up to a white van man parked on a pedestrian crossing as the green man chimes."

We've not met. You think wrong.

[Cassius]

Without getting into specifics, a cyclist on the way to work is just that, whilst a bus driver is doing his job and I would have thought that at least some of his training should have told him how to cope with such situations, and that he didn't seem to cope with this one very well.

[Keef]

the idea that any cyclist would be so enraged if he had not been dangerously fishtailed or barged into the gutter, is laughable

Clearly the driver had no confidence in his own driving standards else he would have called the police

Not even going to ask where these conclusions come from, you obviously know all.

Why are cyclists getting so defensive on here, I just do not get it!

As I said before, had the driver hit the cyclist for no reason, I'd have been first to scream and shout about it, and again as I have said on several occasions, the driver WAS IN THE WRONG. However, everyone seems to think the cyclist was within his rights to act like a total nutter because he'd been wronged (not that anyone knows that). What happened to "two wrongs don't make a right"?

As for

If the cyclist had been female and the driver had proceded to incapacitate and then rape her, would there also have been "that little bit in all of us" which found the situation amusing?

Are you for real? Seriously?