On the Ball (new Football Focus)

[matthew123]

In many parts of the British Isles there are only two teams in town - Liverpool and United, and that is why the rivalry runs so deep not just in the north west. Other Liverpool rivals come and go, Leeds, Arsenal, Chelsea but the one that keeps going through thick and thin is the two longtime heavyweights of English football. Obviously you can throw in Everton as local rivals for Liverpool but outside Merseyside it'll not be as strong :)

That is one of the reasons Red Devil I don't like going up to Old Trafford, they are absolute lunatics and it makes you quite happy to be locked in at the end for your own safety by the riot Police. Out of all the grounds in the country for Liverpool fans I'd say Old Trafford is by far and away the most dangerous. I'm not saying it's a picnic for United fans at Anfield but at least they can get away with wearing the odd scarf!

The one thing I've noticed about United fans when watching games on the telly is that half their songs seem to be nicked from Liverpool, e.g. Istanbul and Torres songs, and then the other half seem to be bile about other clubs they're not even playing especially Liverpool and recently Newcastle. Years ago I was staggered to hear United in a Champions League match singing their loudest when it came to "F**k McManaman and F**k McAteer"..

As for tonight's game I'd like Barcelona to win because I like them but if it's Chelsea then good luck to them - I just hope it's more of a contest than last night..

[Mick Mac]

The European Final needs an international flavour and for that reason I'm supporting Barca tonight.

[Sandperson]

I don't think that's fair. Everyone nicks other teams songs and puts their own words to them. I'd say united were one of the teams that generate a high percentage of their own songs. I've been to enough games to know we sing for our players (past and present) and we sing for the team and there's the odd song, like "build a bonfire" that you'll get at any game but mostly we sing about our own club. "Hello, we are the Busby Boys", "U N I T E D", "Who the f*** are Man United" "Cock of the north" and the "United Calypso" before the game. Think of the players songs "Park, Park where ever you may be...", "The White Pele", "Giggs will tear you apart..." several Ronaldo songs, and of course "Champions of England, Champions of Europe". May not have original tunes but they are original, positive chants for club and players.

The one and only time I've been to a Liverpool game at OT they let everyone out at the same time and the Scousers were pretty aggressive to be fair. I didn't enjoy walking past them. (You had won with the only goal from Danny Murphy in the 87 min).

[matthew123]

Who on earth is, "The White Pele" ?

[Sandperson]

I saw my mate the other day he said he'd seen the White Pele. So I said, "who is he?" He goes by the name of Wayne Rooney!

[Mikecg]

HAHAHA!

[matthew123]

Right... got ya! :-S

[red devil]

Manchester and Liverpool's rivalry was originally based on socio-economic factors, and was more of a love/hate relationship like two squabbling siblings. There was an intense but friendly rivalry between the football fans, my oldest brother went to Anfield in the 60's and stood on the Kop as a Utd fan, no problem. It's only when hooliganism raised it's ugly head that the rivalry took on a violent turn, which todays Johnny-come-latelys feel they have to aspire to.

As for 'nicking' songs, it's hardly a recent trend, fans have always turned around other fans songs, or adapted them to suit their team, does one set of fans have a copyright? The Torres song is based on 'When Johnny Comes Marching' tune, which Utd have sang about John O'Shea for about 8 years, but I wouldn't claim that song as Utd's. The Mascherano song started in Italy. And as for YNWA?...

[Sandperson]

"The White Pele" is in a European cup final...are any of your players? ;-)

[matthew123]

What about YNWA?

[Sandperson]

Not even the "Kop" is an orignal name.

[Annasfield]

He's also a Scouser. ;-) (Not that I'm actually proud of that - have contemplated joining the facebook petition to get him de-scoused)

[red devil]

matthew123 Wrote:

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> What about YNWA?

...Celtic fans will always contest they sang it first.

A story went around a few years back that it was first sung at Old Trafford as a tribute to the victims and survivors of the Munich air crash, as it came from the American musical Carousel, a big hit at that time...I'm not really bothered, Liverpool are welcome to it, far too maudling for my tastes...

[Sandperson]

Annasfield Wrote:

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> He's also a Scouser. ;-) (Not that I'm actually

> proud of that - have contemplated joining the

> facebook petition to get him de-scoused)

Lol, that's brilliant! I'm sure Fergie has looked into having him de-Scoused.

[Annasfield]

You have to admit though that Liverpool are one of the only teams who tend not to sing about teams/players they're not playing.

[red devil]

Anna, yes he's a Scouser, but he's not a Liverpool supporting Scouser, big difference...a bit like your lot when you refer to us as Mancs, I don't think you have Citeh fans in mind...some of my best friends are Scousers I'll have you know ;-)

[Mikecg]

What about the gooners and their Stand up if you hate Tottenham song every week?

[matthew123]

In regard who originally sang YNWA, Liverpool have the strongest claims back to 1963. If it was started by Celtic why was it not heard at their greatest triumph the '67 European Cup Final?

As for United, they may have sung it in '58 but certainly not to the familiar tune to what's made it famous in football as of course that was not recorded until the early 60s.

Some research done by the Guardian further pours cold water over other Clubs claims..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2003/mar/12/theknowledge.sport

[red devil]

Annasfield Wrote:

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> You have to admit though that Liverpool are one of

> the only teams who tend not to sing about

> teams/players they're not playing.

Everytime I've seen 'pool on the box recently the fans have sung that old school classic 'We hate Nott'm Forest...' I think it's all come about because of the amount of footy that's now on TV, any excuse to have a dig at rivals knowing that they're watching...

[matthew123]

Annasfield Wrote:

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> You have to admit though that Liverpool are one of

> the only teams who tend not to sing about

> teams/players they're not playing.

Apart from Arsenal of course, who never sing ;-)

[red devil]

Sandperson Wrote:

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> Annasfield Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > He's also a Scouser. ;-) (Not that I'm actually

> > proud of that - have contemplated joining the

> > facebook petition to get him de-scoused)

>

> Lol, that's brilliant! I'm sure Fergie has looked

> into having him de-Scoused.

Don't mock it's possible, I think it's called electro-shock aversion therapy, he get's a shock everytime he attempts to put on a shell suit...

[Mick Mac]

Celtic don't claim to have sung YNWA first but just to sing it better (and of that there is no doubt....).

[Mick Mac]

By the way - the big game is on Saturday - the SPL championship decider - Rangers V Celtic - I'll be in Ireland so won't be able to post - but hope we can swing it. If we win surely title no.4 is ours !!!

[Annasfield]

Thats often sung red devil, but it's not about one particular team.

Chelsea were in Barca last week, singing the song they were singing at us at Anfield. At Spurs I've often the heard the Adebayor song when we've been playing them, or "**-0 and you fvcked it up" from when the played Arsenal the week before. From Old Trafford "Are you watching Merseyside?".

We generally don't do that and tend to sing about our players. Was thinking about this the other day and I reckon there's a song for nearly every first team player. Some bloody good ones too, but of course I'm biased.

[red devil]

You beat me to it Mick, Celtic Park singing YNWA is an awesome sight, when I watched Celtic I used to keep my fingers crossed behind my back when it was sung...;-)