over zealous parking ticket man!

[huntaaar]

I get the impression that people must be really board about parking ticket conversations but i have nowhere else to complain about it so your getting it!

I received this parking ticket at yes 1 minute past 4 as my girlfriend and I were stood at the car to move it (parked on Lship lane).

How can you possibly consider this decent?!Why not just let us move the car?

Does anyone know if I have any ground for appeal on the basis it was seconds into the time and I was there to move it already?

Thanks

[seanmlow]

Well, did you know that they have to legally wait 5 mins at the car before issuing a ticket? Did he do this I would be interested to know!

[huntaaar]

Is this documented fact though? where can i source the needed legal info to back this up?

[Jeremy]

I recently succesfully appealed, but I had an indisputable case. I wouldn't recommend appealing otherwise, as it is a very lengthy process, and if you lose you will end up paying far more than you would have done if you'd paid up straight away.

Even though yours seem unfair, technically you didn't leave it time... so unfortunately I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

The 5 min rule is a new one to me... but can't see this changing anything in this case.

[huntaaar]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I recently succesfully appealed, but I had an

> indisputable case. I wouldn't recommend appealing

> otherwise, as it is a very lengthy process, and if

> you lose you will end up paying far more than you

> would have done if you'd paid up straight away.

>

> Even though yours seem unfair, technically you

> didn't leave it time... so unfortunately I don't

> think you have a leg to stand on.

it does state that if an appeal is unsuccessful you will be offered another chance to pay the discounted rate of 50% (60 quid)

[huntaaar]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The 5 min rule is a new one to me... but can't see

> this changing anything in this case.

Well the "first time observed in contravention" is 1 min past 4 and the time of the "time of contravention" is 2 minutes past 4

they don't even have a phone number! save on the abuse I guess :)

[seanmlow]

Martin Lewis, money saving expert, has advice of this on his website.

[FrustratedLawyer]

Reminds me of the time a few weeks ago when I was wandering about up Town and sptted and parking warden ticketing up a car with diplomatic plates. I genuinely thought I would do him a favour by pointing this out, but he told me to 'shove off and mind my own business' (verbatim but moderated in the interests of decency).

I can't imagine their training is terribly thorough.

[huntaaar]

seanmlow Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Martin Lewis, money saving expert, has advice of

> this on his website.

thanks for the nod but I have been on there already.

its an overwealming mindfield of tecnicalities and sebsections, confusing as hell (the process not Martins site!) I did post on their forums too but so far not that helpful.

I was hopeing someone would know about this specific case?

Thanks anyway

[Jeremy]

huntaaar Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> it does state that if an appeal is unsuccessful

> you will be offered another chance to pay the

> discounted rate of 50% (60 quid)

In theory. My experience is that they will *try* to charge you the increased amount.

[Wombat]

Most of the time they won't want the expense of having a representative go to court so they'll drop it before that time. Just a case of taking a gamble. They'll almost always reject the initial appeal in the hope you change your mind so as to pay at the reduced rate.

Just keep appealing would be my advice - but then again it won't be me paying any fine.

[Jeremy]

The council don't have to send someone into the hearing, if it goes that far. They usually just represent their case in writing. As I say, I would only appeal if you are confident of winning.

[dullwitch]

Sorry to hear about your ticket huntaar, it's feels so unjust doesn't it?

Have a look at this website http://www.pepipoo.com/. I would recommend appealling, you have nothing to lose by trying.

I have appealled a few tickets and have usually been successful. Sometimes it is neccasary to write twice, then they get fed up with you and let you off. :))

good luck Xx

[PeckhamRose]

If you are sure it was just one minute over, and you find it is true they should have waited 5 minutes, then at the very least ask for confirmation of the calibration of the timing device used to show the time.

[PeckhamRose]

And you could raise the issue here as parking will indeed be discussed.

[*JR*]

Sorry Huntaaar,

This happened to me a few years ago. I've attached my 'appeal' letter which I hope might prove useful to you.

Regards

*JR*

[????]

Contact your councillor about this too...make enough noise about the outrageous way that these tickets are given out and we may be able to get some sanity back....my missus 1 minute over time on a pick up zone outside a nursery 2 weeks ago.....

[Chick]

Below is a copy of my appeal letter for the same situation. In my case they dropped the ticket. Outside Somerfield?

Southwark Parking Services,

364, Old Kent Road,

SE1 5AA.

20/02/06

Dear Sirs,

PCN: S087116900 VRM: KX54.

Parking restrictions start at 16:00. This ticket was issued at 16:02. It takes almost 60 seconds to issue a ticket therefore the time window for my ?offence? is approximately 1 minute.

To issue tickets within such a small time scale requires a time keeping device which is accurate and calibrated. I asked your attendant to show me his time keeping device expecting to see something which was perhaps time stamped by GPS or at least received a signal from the Rugby MSF atomic clock. This is a free service and timekeeping devices are cheap and readily available.

Instead he showed me a LCD watch which I estimate would cost no more than ?1.99 from a local garage. These devices suffer from ?drift? and if they are not calibrated they are inaccurate. He explained that this device had never been calibrated. I therefore do not intend to pay this fine and wish to appeal.

I also have photographic evidence of your parking attendant parked in Ashburton Grove both dangerously and illegally. How can it be right for your attendants to park in such a way whilst issuing tickets for being less than two minutes over time?

Yours sincerely

[macroban]

The letter misses out the time the parking ticket was taken from the windscreen.

[lpool]

I should imagine most parking tickets are issued on Lordship Lane between 4pm and 4.05pm as people often don't realise that parking restrictions kick in after 4pm. The clue is the van load of wardens who arrive at 3.58pm most days.

[huntaaar]

OK thanks everyone, I went with this in the end.

To Whom It May Concern

I am writing to appeal the enclosed ticket I received for a parking violation on the 17th of February at 16:02pm.

My grounds for appeal are based on the fact that I was at my vehicle presently to remove it from the parking bay at what was, for all intents and purposes 4pm with no intention of staying parked into the period when it is not condoned.

I was on site to move the car before the attendant had even finished issuing the ticket at by his clock 1 minute past 4pm, by my clock I still had 2 minutes to move the car. I have also included the unattached, unused envelope for the ticket to help prove I was in attendance when the ticket was issued.

I found the argument that he had ?started to issue the ticket? valid only to the extent that I would be able to appeal at this juncture in the process on the grounds of reasonable process and fairness.

Many people consider these events nothing more than a stealth tax. I am currently not of that mindset and see the validity in its process but surly there must be some kind of safeguard that allows for small differences in peoples clocks?

I hope common sense will prevail here.

Regards

[Huguenot]

Hmmm. Too reasonable I think Huntaaar.

Chick's smacked of 'I'm totally unreasonable and totally prepared to go the distance' that would make a council operative more likely to waive the fine than get a career blackmark.

[macroban]

I don't understand why a citizen would wish to evade a penalty by use of "clever words".

[Huguenot]

I don't think it's about clever words MacRoban, it's about rationale.

Both penalties seem unreasonable in that they were served on a technical aspect '4.02pm' rather than the spirit of the law, which was to reduce congestion through rush hour. Both drivers were present and in the process of removing the vehicle.

Chick responded in kind, by challenging the technical accuracy of the penalty in such a way that it was unlikely to hold up in court.

Huntaaar doesn't do this, but questions the penalty on the basis of 'fairness' (which is subjective) and raises the issue of stealth tax (which is emotive). However, by using these arguments, (s)he unwittingly accepts the legal premise of the ticket, which is all that counts.

It may be that Huntaaar's letter encounters a reasonable adjudicator with the flexibility to act. Chick doesn't need one.

I'm not sure, also, MacRoban why you have a thing about intelligence. You bandy the word "clever" like it's an insult - is there a problem?

[????]

Hugenot....your problem is that you don't seem to understand that drivers don't have a problem with the understandable and sensible principle behind parking tickets - to ease congestion - is generarly not how they are used by most LA who just use them to raise revenue which they love...so they try and make excuses to have restrictions everywhere (not just where they are needed) and then draconally enforce them.