Jump to content

Recommended Posts

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> There's good reason Croydon airport was closed why

> should Heathrow be any different?


Croydon closed because there was no room to lengthen the runways, nothing to do with noise.


The Thames estuary airport would be totally impractical for myriad reasons, some of which are that it's three times more likely to suffer from fog than Heathrow, that flight plans would be next to impossible given the proximity of Schipol, that it would destroy environmentally sensitive sites, that there would be a massively increased risk of bird strike...oh and there's the small matter of the wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery, which has been lying there since 1944 with 1400 tons of explosive on board, which nobody has yet worked out how to remove!


I personally choose not fly and would rather, for many reasons, air travel was more severely rationed, but TE airport really won't work.

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Really OH well no solution then.

>

> Just noticed the flight path has moved a mile

> north from earlier this evening still getting on

> my nerves!


The only real solution, I fear, is for people who can afford it to take responsibility for their environmental footprint and not continue to regard half a dozen continental or inter-continental holidays and mini-breaks a year as a natural right, but I'm not holding my breath!

Cardelia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lowlander Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The fact remains that London is unique in

> having

> > it's biggest airport in a foggy location, with

> > prevailing winds dictating flightpaths over the

> > city affecting the majority of residents.

> >

> > You won't find this situation in any other

> major

> > Western city.

>

> Well, Chicago frequently has fog rolling in from

> Lake Michigan and even though the approach path is

> generally over the lake, a lot of northern Chicago

> suffers terribly from aircraft noise. Boston is

> very similar, with fogs rolling in from the

> harbour and north Boston suffering from noise. In

> North America, off the top of my head, there's

> also LA, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York

> (Newark), Toronto and Washington DC, all of which

> have some/most of their urban areas underneath the

> flight path and can suffer from severe fog delays.

> Heathrow's problems are not unique to Heathrow.


I mentioned the fog but really it's irrelevant to this argument. Do North American cities have the same scale of noise problem - for instance the equivalent of Chelsea/Westminster/Putney/Barnes/Battersea etc. being under?


From what I can gather, there is a problem but not on the same scale as the London.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/nyregion/engaging-in-a-softer-conversation-about-the-roar-from-new-yorks-airports.html?_r=0

The thing with a lot of major American cities - Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco etc - is that they're right on the seaboard and so can bring the planes in and send them out over the ocean, with airports right on the edge of the sea, and of course a lot of the cities in the heartland have so much open space around them they can afford to have the airports well out of town with space for massive highway infrastructure to whisk passengers swiftly into town, not a privilege we have on our little island.

Nonsense

Heathrow doesn't need to exist

We could easily find another location


The problem is some landed lord would need to free up the land


So it'll never happen !


Little people under the ruling class as ever have a look on google earth if you think I'm wrong.




You're so naive.



Fact is there's plenty of land

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nonsense

> Heathrow doesn't need to exist

> We could easily find another location

>

> The problem is some landed lord would need to free

> up the land

>

> So it'll never happen !

>

> Little people under the ruling class as ever have

> a look on google earth if you think I'm wrong.

>

>

>

> You're so naive.

>

>

> Fact is there's plenty of land


That's right, I'm naive, whereas your expectation that any government would spend maybe ?100 BN on a new airport outside London, plus maybe another ?50 BN on rail and road infrastructure connections, plus make 76,000 people working at Heathrow redundant because you're bothered by aircraft noise is entirely realistic.


I do believe it's a genuine problem for you though, as your posts on here prove it does make you unnecessarily confrontational and aggressive.

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Me Aggressive ?

>

> I'm not the one telling you to accept a discomfort

> or mental abuse.


You are however the one who's called those who have courteously disagreed with you (deep breath) "thin skinned," "really sad," "blinkered," "odd," "morally [un]acceptable," "defeatist," "sad" (again), "odd" (again), "complicit," "insulting," and "naive." Which is quite aggressive.


I'm genuinely sorry that aircraft noise causes you such discomfort, but it's really not mental abuse.

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have that's true because that is what they are.

>

> The title is about aircraft noise.

>

> If you / they don't have a problem then why on

> earth tell me?

>

> You're just windup merchants. Please go away.

>

> Poppy xx


Conversely, if you have a problem why tell us? It's called a discussion board I believe - for discussing things. That means, much as you don't like it, some people may disagree with you.

Pop9770


Are you the reincarnation of Fazer71 (who no longer exists as a user)?


I ask because your posts are very similar to each other ?


I agree with rendel it's a two way discussion forum with those who have one point POLITELY discussing it with those who have a different view.


Sadly not everyone agrees with you but that doesn't make their point of view wrong

Pop9770


I'm just pointing out that your style of writing is very similar to the poster formally know as fazer71, who incidentally stopped posting on here shortly before your first post, hence why I asked the question.


It is a different view, your view is aircraft noise is a blight , mine is that it isn't that much of a problem and s necessary side effect of modern travel.


I guess we could all go back to airships and slow travel and paddle steamers as a mode of transport but that's not going to get you to the Canary Islands or where ever else it is you want to go on holiday now is it ?

I have previously said on this or a sister post that it is possible to address issues where particular stimuli become points of obsession through psychological supports, such as CBT and Mindfulness. It seems clear that whilst some people find the airplane noise virtually intolerable others (in the same area) do not. Ways of changing your relationship with that noise may be helpful. Where everyone finds a stimulus impossible to live with, then the stimulus should be addressed, but where only some do the most 'economic' solution might be one which addressed the sufferer, not the immediate cause. Just as phobias (such as arachnophobia) can be addressed through CBT, so your relationship to aircraft noise may also be addressable (and no, I am not saying that you are 'mad' or deranged, simply that your relationship to airplane noise, the way in which it captures your attention so that it become unreasonably intrusive may be something which psychological support might be able to address).

Look I've come here to vent my anger and frustration with likeminded sympathetic fellow sufferers.

Not to debate with people who don't suffer.

I'm not wasting my time on this it's increasing my anger and frustration levels through such discussion.

If everyone was affected then it would be fixed clearly.

Yes maybe some good psychiatry will help me thank you.

Poppy, without wanting to add fuel to the flames, I think people have generally been pretty polite in trying to point out why aircraft noise is just one of those things to which, at present, there's no real solution, living as we do in one of the world's most populous, popular and richest cities. Personally as someone who chooses not to fly I would applaud any measures to cut down on air travel, but then I'd applaud measures to cut down on car travel as well (something which bothers me far more) but neither are going to happen any time soon. I do hope you find a way to make peace with something which is clearly genuinely bothering you as, rightly or wrongly, it's going to be around for a long long time (even if they started building Boris' wrongheaded and impractical estuary airport right now, it wouldn't be functional before 2027 even without the inevitable overruns).


Anyway, as we're enjoying several sundowners in the garden tonight it seems we're off the flightpath this evening, so I hope you can enjoy your Saturday night.


Peace,


Rendel

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have previously said on this or a sister post

> that it is possible to address issues where

> particular stimuli become points of obsession

> through psychological supports, such as CBT and

> Mindfulness. It seems clear that whilst some

> people find the airplane noise virtually

> intolerable others (in the same area) do not. Ways

> of changing your relationship with that noise may

> be helpful. Where everyone finds a stimulus

> impossible to live with, then the stimulus should

> be addressed, but where only some do the most

> 'economic' solution might be one which addressed

> the sufferer, not the immediate cause. Just as

> phobias (such as arachnophobia) can be addressed

> through CBT, so your relationship to aircraft

> noise may also be addressable (and no, I am not

> saying that you are 'mad' or deranged, simply that

> your relationship to airplane noise, the way in

> which it captures your attention so that it become

> unreasonably intrusive may be something which

> psychological support might be able to address).


Advocating CBT to a significant minority of the population of London? Regardless of the merits of CBT, is this not even slightly Orwellian?


But I will raise it with my Doctor and report back!

Advocating CBT to a significant minority of the population


Not much liking the aircraft noise and it's making your life a misery are, I would suggest, different in scale - and there are techniques, such as Mindfulness, which can offer some succour without having to go down a CBT route necessarily. Whilst there are many who would sign a petition to 'make the noise go away' - I suspect there are far fewer for whom the noise is actually seriously damaging their quality of life (around here, anyway, for those much closer to the airports it is a different thing entirely). I am lucky in that I am rarely bothered by the aircraft noise, or even aware of it unless reading these threads (and my hearing is good) - the low hovering police helicopters we get on occasion are another matter, but hardly frequent enough to want to make an issue of it.

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Advocating CBT to a significant minority of the

> population

>

> Not much liking the aircraft noise and it's making

> your life a misery are, I would suggest, different

> in scale - and there are techniques, such as

> Mindfulness, which can offer some succour without

> having to go down a CBT route necessarily. Whilst

> there are many who would sign a petition to 'make

> the noise go away' - I suspect there are far fewer

> for whom the noise is actually seriously damaging

> their quality of life (around here, anyway, for

> those much closer to the airports it is a

> different thing entirely). I am lucky in that I am

> rarely bothered by the aircraft noise, or even

> aware of it unless reading these threads (and my

> hearing is good) - the low hovering police

> helicopters we get on occasion are another matter,

> but hardly frequent enough to want to make an

> issue of it.


Hmm, it's a little more serious than that. There are studies showing the actual health risks, like this one from the British Medical Journal showing that "...High levels of aircraft noise were associated with increased risks of stroke, coronary heart disease, and cardiovascular disease..."


http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5432

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Ahh, the old "it's only three days" chestnut.  I do hope you realise the big metal walls, stages, tents, toilets, lighting, sound equipment, refreshments, concessions etc don't just magically appear & disappear overnight? You know it all has to be transported in & erected, constructed? And that when stuff is constructed, like on a construction site, it's quite noisy & distracting? Banging, crashing, shouting, heavy plant moving around - beep beep beep reversing signals, engines revving - pneumatic tools? For 8 to 10 hours a day, every day? And that it tends to go on for two or three weeks before an event, and a week after when they take it all down again? I'm sure my boys' GCSE prep won't be affected by any of that, especially if we close the windows (before someone suggests that as a resolution). I'm sure it won't affect anyone at the Harris schools either, actually taking their exams with that background noise.
    • Thanks for the good discussion, this should be re-titled as a general thread about feeding the birds. @Penguin not really sure why you posted, most are aware that virtually all land in this country is managed, and has been for 100s of years, but there are many organisations, local and national government, that manage large areas of land that create appropriate habitats for British nature, including rewilding and reintroductions.  We can all do our bit even if this is not cutting your lawn, and certainly by not concreting over it.  (or plastic grass, urgh).   I have simply been stating that garden birds are semi domesticated, as perhaps the deer herds in Richmond Park, New Forest ponies, and even some foxes where we feed them.  Whoever it was who tried to get a cheap jibe in about Southwark and the Gala festival.  Why?  There is a whole thread on Gala for you to moan on.  Lots going on in Southwark https://www.southwark.gov.uk/culture-and-sport/parks-and-open-spaces/ecology-and-wildlife I've talked about green sqwaky things before, if it was legal I'd happily use an air riffle, and I don't eat meat.  And grey squirrels too where I am encourage to dispatch them. Once a small group of starlings also got into the garden I constructed my own cage using starling proof netting, it worked for a year although I had to make a gap for the great spotted woodpecker to get in.  The squirrels got at it in the summer but sqwaky things still haven't come back, starlings recently returned.  I have a large batch of rubbish suet pellets so will let them eat them before reordering and replacing the netting. Didn't find an appropriately sized cage, the gaps in the mesh have to be large enough for finches etc, and the commercial ones were £££ The issue with bird feeders isn't just dirty ones, and I try to keep mine clean, but that sick birds congregate in close proximity with healthy birds.  The cataclysmic obliteration of the greenfinch population was mainly due to dirty feeders and birds feeding close to each other.  
    • Another recommendation for Niko - fitted me in the next day, simple fix rather than trying to upsell and a nice guy as well. Will use again
    • Looks great! but could it be possible to pinch the frames a bit tighter with some long nose pliers and add more struts to stop the tree rats getting inside? Also, the only issue with a mesh base is that it could attract rats towards your property.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...