General Election 2015

[TillieTrotter]

I wasn't talking about me per se,just giving you an example of someone who, had I been around to vote, wouldn't have voted labour.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I always find it astonishing when the Tories talk like they're some sort of bullied minority... Going on about liberal elites and media bias, how "you can't talk about immigration", silenced by the (far from apparent) forces of political correctness etc, etc. they've a ridiculous persecution complex considering that they're backed by big business, most of the press and represent establishment interests. They paint the left as soft, whilst (despite having most of the power, money and influence) acting like a bunch of crybabies.

[Louisa]

I think you'll find rahrahrah that it's the blindingly obvious you and the London left are yet again refusing to acknowledge. You're blaming it all on the right wing press, the sad fact is that yet again you fail to understand what has happened over the last 48 hours. The majority of the left and centre left electorate OUTSIDE of London does have concerns about immigration, it does fear for the economy, and unfortunantely they will switch to UKIP and the greens on the left and the tories in the centre. Why are you refusing to recognise this?

The Labour campaign failed outside of London! Unbelievable blinkers on again.

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

What are talking about? I haven't blamed anything on the press. I've pointed out that the Right banging on about media bias and liberal elites.. as some Tory supporters have predictably done in this thread, is ridiculous.

[Tony2014]

This is quite a long one but I think it's important to let people know what the reality is and also don't think it couldn't happen to you.

Now the Tories are in expect a sharp drop in the number of unemployed signing on. Not that there will be any more people working but they are removing people signing on by imposing arbitrary conditions.

Unfortunately I had to sign on last year which is the last thing I wanted. I'd been job hunting but discovered that being 53 my job market is limited. I'm doing all the things like networking, LinkedIn, volunteering etc.

In February, with the full knowledge (and approval)of the Job Centre I started studying to get a professional qualification to back-up my actual experience and I paid for this course myself (?1700)which I am committed to, I purposely chose the course because although I have to attend college two days a week it still left me lots of time to job hunt and also if I got a job I could easily switch to an evening course.

On Wednesday, at a job centre review, I was told that I could no longer claim JSA (and consequentially housing benefits) because they've decided that the amount of study I would need to do outside the course would be added to my time in class and that would exceed the 16 hours study permitted.

They won't give me any idea of how they decided I would need so much study nor are there any official guidelines anywhere(I've actually averaged over 90% in exams so far with minimal outside study as it is material I've experience of already.)

When I spoke to the college advisor he told me that recently he has had a surge in people coming to him with the same problem and it is a ruse to get people off the register. You can appeal but it is a laborious and frustrating task. Many people feel they will then be victimised if they sign back on (eg have to sign on everyday, be sanctioned for not achieving unrealistic targets for job apps etc) and so don't bother to claim what they are entitled to.

So 30 years of paying National Insurance is worthless.

The most illogical thing about the whole matter - if I stopped doing the course (thereby reducing my chances of getting work) I could sign on again immediately.

[Blah Blah]

Your story Tony is not an isolated one, and you illustrate perfectly the reality for people like you and others who are being left in an impossible situation by a party whose only goal is to deny benefits to as many people as possible, and to make it as hard as possible for others to claim.

Instead of the ususal nonsense of left vs right etc and media etc dicussed above, your story are the issues we should be discussing.

I don't care personally which party is in power as long as they deliver a fair society. But the tories have painted people like you as feckless, lazy, idle and as having lots of disposable income on your meagre benefits for things like booze, fags and HD televisions! The demonisation of the poorest has perhaps been the Coalitions greatest success.

The system is not designed to help people back into work, only to penalise as many people as possible so they can cut the cost.

This is the real impact of Tory policy folks. Otta somewhere talked about how there is nothing left to cut in his job, but his job. And more cuts are coming. It is deeply affecting the lives, and livihoods of many people. Meanwhile nothing is growing on the economy at all. Tax receipts down, productivity down, exports down, borrowing up since 2010. The coalition haven't saved the economy at all, and when interests rates go up, as they will have to at some point, the shit really is going to hit the fan.

[Earl Aelfheah]

For what it's worth Louisa, I agree that outside of London, immigration and the perception that Labour crashed the economy are probably what saw the Tories win.

[TillieTrotter]

In the interest of balance and god I really feel for Tony. Something similar happened to me six years ago! I lost my business and my marriage fell apart and I ended up bankrupt and on the dole for a 2 year period (single mother with 3 kids). The inland revenue wouldn't let me sell my house and because I was a home owner I was given a tiny proportion of housing help compared to that of friends who were career doleists given to rent their lovely homes. The upshot was I lost my house, had to sell for silly money and moved out of our area to rent a crsphole flat, had a severely depressed child and had to borrow a huge amount from family to drag myself out of the situation. That was under a labour government. I have only just started revisiting that horrendous period of my life!

This is not meant in any way to take away from Tony's dire situation.

[Tony2014]

Hi Tillie, totally feel for you too! At least I have only me to look after. Thanks for sharing as it is important that people see the real stories and not the sensationalist rubbish that press and government feed us.

[Blah Blah]

Yes I think there is an irony Tillie in that we happily give benefit money to landlords to pay their mortgages but don't help those with mortgages themselves who fall on hard times. It's a complex thing to balance. But instead of having a sensible debate about it (I'm talking about politicians here) we engage in the politics of envy to justify hitting people as hard as possible. There has to be a better way to sort all of these things out than we have at the moment. We could start with some honesty from our press and politicians.

[????]

...and people on Forums/social media too maybe?

"Only goal is to deny etc etc"

"Nothing is growing on the Economy"

blah blah indeed

[TillieTrotter]

Thanks Tony and my fingers are crossed for you.xx

Honesty from our politicians seems like such a Utopian idea doesn't it!

[Otta]

I don't think Miliband was dishonest, he just had nothing particularly good to promise us. That's why when I voted Labour I was voting against the tories, not voting FOR an ideal.

I want Labour to take some time to rebuild and come back with a new choice.

Not holding my breath though.

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> What are talking about? I haven't blamed anything on the press. I've pointed out that the Right

> banging on about media bias and liberal elites.. as some Tory supporters have predictably done in

> this thread, is ridiculous.

But isn't that just the same as the constant mumblings from the left in the Guardian comments that the BBC has a 'right wing bias'. Now I personally think the Beeb has got the balance pretty much correct, but if it does have any bias it certainly isn't to the right.

I think it's the same old story - as you move more away from the centre, in either direction, the paranoia increases.

[Blah Blah]

So ????, tell us just where the growth actually is in the economy? It's not rocket science. Borrowing is up since 2010. Tax receipts are down. Exports down and productivity too. Oh I know, the 2 million new jobs? But you see, I just can;t balance that with tax receipts being down somehow.

[Loz]

Otta Wrote:

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> I don't think Miliband was dishonest, he just had nothing particularly good to promise us. That's

> why when I voted Labour I was voting against the tories, not voting FOR an ideal.

That's an interesting view on it, Otta. And I think sums up Labour's problem - it didn't sufficiently set out an alternative (let's face it - their entire manifesto was basically Tory-lite) and other parties like UKIP and the Greens soaked up the anti-government protest vote.

I think Labour has to decide what it is. At the moment it is an uncomfortable coalition of old-school Labour movement and the urban left. If the urban left part got together with the Lib Dems and created a liberal-left party, casting off the remainder of the union link and the old-school reds, then I think that could be the basis of a political party with a soul.

[Otta]

Yep, I'd be on board.

I am a fan of Miliband the man, but could never understand why he never hid Ed Balls away out of sight and mind right from the start.

May have been a bit harsh on Balls but the Tories spent 5 years successfully convincing everyone that Labour were reapinsinle for all of the world's financial woes, and no one represented the Brown government from a financial perspective like Balls did.

He was poison for them just be sitting there.

[Blah Blah]

Except the Labour party was formed with the alliance of unions representing ordinary working people. And unions still have an important role to play. I personally don't have any issue with that.

But I do agree with the identity crisis that Labour currently has Otta. Miliband failed to read the mood of the country and took far too long into his leadership to provide any kind of opposition. The Tories had a good two years of getting their skewed core message out, unchallenged, at the start. By the time Miliband started to respond, it was too late to change that. People genuinely think Labour ruined the economy!

I do also think that the Tories did a great job of striking fear into people regarding the SNP, and they did it in a way that also took the bite out of UKIP.

*crossed posts otta but I think we are on the same page*

[Louisa]

No chance of the lib Dems ever going down the road of teaming up with the right of the Labour Party. Let's not forget, the lib dems are a patch work quilt of politician ideologies. You have elements of red old school socialism sat alongside traditional liberalism. Unless the lib dems break apart after having internal debate, very unlikely.

Louisa.

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Tax receipts are down.

Is that true? Are they down, or down on projections? The only cumulative figures I can find is this, which suggest tax receipts are rising year-on-year since 2010:

 

[Blah Blah]

Down on projections. Expenditure continues to rise although we'll have to wait and see what impact new cuts have on closing the gap. I tend to think also that any party in power would have seen a recovery. I think it has less to do with Colaition policy and more to do with the natural rebound after a major crash. The real test will be to see if living standards increase over the next five years and if that gap can close without massive pain. The Tories promised a lot of givaways as well in their manifesto.

[Henry_17]

Blah,

So given that we have established tax receipts have risen, and that the decline you had in mind concerned projections about the future, are you able to "balance" this with 2m jobs having been added?

[Blah Blah]

No because the reciepts are not proportionally high enough. We need better paid jobs at the lower end. More people are out of tax altogether than ever (because of low wages) and most people in full time work earn below the average ?23k salary. We are subsidising employers more money than ever (?28bn per year) with working tax credits and other benefits. That is the inbalance I am talking about. It is costing other tax payers money to keep people in work. That is not the sign of a healthy, balanced or growing economy.

[Blah Blah]

Some useful data here...

http://www.poverty.org.uk/15/index.shtml

3.3 million working households in receipt of tax credits in 2011. Will try and find some data for 2014. But the message is clear. Millions of people can only afford to work if we top up their salaries.

[Tony2014]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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'It is costing other tax payers money to keep people in work.'

This is true. Also true is tax payers are subsidising profit making companies who then, in a double whammy, do not pay tax on those profits. This is how public money is being diverted to private companies.