Quids Said - would you do it?

[*Bob*]

I found an old 'who should I vote for' questionnaire thing for the 2005 GE.

Like the mayoral one, I find these things really useful and interesting to do.

They're over-simplified, obviously (this one is aimed at people at school); but have you tried to distill key policy from the websites of the main three political parties? It's like pulling teeth. Seriously, you'd be forgiven for thinking they didn't want you know.

Anyway, here are my results on 2005 policy, honest answers all. I wonder if anything will have changed at the next GE.

[mockney piers]

Just had a look. They'er pretty leading questions aren't they.

A)introduce blah within a month of the election

b)oppose something because they say it's baaaad

c)something nondescript

[*Bob*]

Of course this doesn't change the fact that at least a quarter of the population will vote a particular way on the grounds that someone 'has a kind face' or the like..

[Mark]

Blimey, I came up 95% Liberal and 5% Labour.

[*Bob*]

Looks like you're one of us, Mark.

Welcome.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

mockney: Invisible Ink?...How did you edit that without it saying that you did?:)

I wanted to reply before my Sierra Leonese friend arrives (don't worry she is coming from Thamesmead not Freetown!)..

p.s I AM getting confused about you being "accused" of being "affluent" though because you ain't!!

(I say you "ain't" because you refuted that by not giving me any points when I said you were, when I was Young and Judgemental..I only scored 1/5 and that was for correctly saying you receiving a decent Education!)..

[mockney piers]

Yes, join us.

Vote Liberal, the party of the sanctimonious, hypocritical, affluent white middle class, ignorant, naive, hippy, la la land masses.

Go on you know you want to!!!

[Tony.London Suburbs]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, join us.

> Vote Liberal, the party of the sanctimonious,

> hypocritical, affluent white middle class,

> ignorant, naive, hippy, la la land masses.

> Go on you know you want to!!!

NOW you are talking M8!

(Remember though you denied you were affluent or were you in such a, frankly, "indecent" haste to chastise me that you told a little porky pie...;-))

"Masses"...a small cloistered Minority by any criteria...

[mockney piers]

Sorry TLS, i realised that anger got the better of me and I waved my magic wand.

I didn't want to have to do this but:

You come from The Shires.

Nope Spain. I did school in hertforshire, but have lived all over, oop north, abroad and London for 15 years

You come from a reasonably affluent background.

NHS mother on pittance, auto didactic, working class immigrant father who worked hard and did ok. I never hungered and always had shoes, and we had a telly and stuff. Went through uni entirely on government money and personal debt. Happily consider myself middle class though. As i said, lived slightly above poverty line for 4 years in london until took even further heavy burden of debt to retrain myself and lift myself up financially speaking.

You had the benefit of a decent English education.

bingo

You, obviously, moved to the bright lights of London but have no natural affinity to the place. It "suits" for now.

Moved here many years and maintain it's the best city on earth. I will live elsewhere because I want to experience other things, and in reverse of what my father did for me, my kids will probably be better off schooled in Spain (plus it's a flip sight warmer)

You couldn't give a flying fcuk about England or, at best, you are indifferent, make that "supremely indifferent"..

I love England, nay Britain (the welsh are tops too you know, and my mum's side come from Scotland via the windies...err and germany) I love so much about this country and the people, but it's far from perfect and some things have beeen getting worse, particularly the sense of personal liberty that was a real factor in what this country stood for.

I don't even know what "supremely indefferent" means, maybe you meant ambivalent which i most certainly am, foreign adventuring for instance should have been consigned to the dustbin of our imperial past.

Happy?

Now, that election in full....

[Brendan]

Huey, when I said:

?Does a group of people who are from the same place, have the same culture beliefs and social structure, are vulnerable to the same things and are distinct from other groups in the world not have the right to self determination??

I was not talking about going back in history to what people feel they have some hereditary right to. On that basis according to my lineage I should demand the right to vote in Britain, Ireland, Belgium, South Africa and the Netherlands*. Likewise every Jew, Christian and Muslim on the planet should get a flat in Jerusalem.

I was thinking more along the lines of a group of people who currently have significant enough common interest and mutual identification to see themselves as a distinct group or even a nation, regardless of whether they have had this historically or if it has developed over the last couple of generations. Is there space to allow them self determination in a globalised world?

It is a question I often ask because I come from a country that is home to a number of different nations rather than being a nation in itself and I currently live in a country which does the same but in a very different way.

*Whereas as it stands I can only vote in Britain, Ireland and now South Africa too apparently.

Oh and Europe too.

Which is admittedly all a bit bemusing.

[Ted Max]

I don't know anyone who posts here, as far as I'm aware, and am in no clique as far as I'm aware, but I do get annoyed by Tony's ability to make so many threads about himself. There's a neediness that manifests itself when he is disagreed with - and a consistent special pleading on his background. I know more about his life than my own, at the moment.

No doubt he'll say it's not his doing, but if he wasn't spoiling for a fight on this thread then I've got comprehension issues.

Marmora Man, I'm reasonably close to some of the output of the CSJ - some decent proposals but an awful lot of failed old Tory thinking in there as well.

I appreciate the tactical value to the C&P Tories of having one of the apparent good guys (Stranack) on their side - but the fact that he's so different from the usual Party fodder highlights a problem, doesn't it, with the Party at large?

Which opens up another discussion - should we vote for local candidates, or on a party basis?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Thanks very much for that reply Mockney.

You have been re-instated as one of my Favourite Forumites....

Now where's that cad Huguenot.....

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Ted Max Wrote:

I know more about his life than my own, at the moment.

B) I deserved that comment Ted.

I won't comment on the rest as I'll be back in the mix but that comment was GENUINELY funny and I take the point M8.

[Jeremy]

You seem to have a different friend, from a different part of the world visiting you every day, Tony!

[Marmora Man]

Ted Max Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know anyone who posts here, as far as I'm

> aware, and am in no clique as far as I'm aware,

> but I do get annoyed by Tony's ability to make so

> many threads about himself.

Agree - I'm annoyed too.

Marmora Man, I'm reasonably close to some of the output of the CSJ - some decent proposals but an awful lot of failed old Tory thinking in there as well. But it's travelling in the right (no pun intended) direction

I appreciate the tactical value to the C&P Tories of having one of the apparent good guys (Stranack)on their side - but the fact that he's so different from the usual Party fodder highlights a problem, doesn't it, with the Party at large? I suppose I should properly have described him as challenging the typical stereotype of a conservative candidate. On a personal note, having met Andy I believe he has the potential to defeat Harriet Harman through a combination of personality, knowledge and experience of inner city living and its problems, plus a genuine desire to make a difference and improve the lot of his constituents.

Which opens up another discussion - should we vote for local candidates, or on a party basis? Difficult. The "purist" answer is vote for local candidate but pragmatically there is a need to take the wider view. In practical terms only voters in swing / marginal seat have any impact on the election result and they are the ones that must consider most carefully.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Maybe we should rename TLS Kim?

[*Bob*]

It's like the United Nations round there.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You seem to have a different friend, from a

> different part of the world visiting you every

> day, Tony!

More than you realise Jeremy!

At 11.30 AM Sierra Leonese friend/cleaning Woman arriving- though she is becoming a pain-in-the-ass as I frequently tell her.

Supposed to have visited a friend last night who is 3rd Generation Janmaican/British.

The Guy who is 2nd Generation Jamaican who I walk my 4 Westies with (he has 2 of the same breed).

Jamaican Girlfriend coming back to stay from tonight to around Tuesday.

Visiting another 2nd Generation Jamaican friend who still lives in Walworth (my birthplace) next Wednesday.

Thats in the last few/next few days..

p.s It IS strange how NONE of them have noted any Racist tendencies from me though..ummm

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Just realise what I have done Maxie!?

Forgive Me!

[Ted Max]

In practical terms only voters in swing / marginal seat have any impact on the election result and they are the ones that must consider most carefully.

Cameron should go for his own version of the 50 state policy.

The actual hatred of Brown really shocks me. But I don't deny it's a real phenomenon in much of England and I really think the Tories could blow many strong Labour leads wide open at the election.

The bonus of this is that it may help them to think about the whole country, and policies for them, rather than which policies will appeal to the 5000 swithering middle-grounders in 20 "key" constituencies.

Idealist, me? Not much.

[david_carnell]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Which opens up another discussion - should we vote

> for local candidates, or on a party basis?

> Difficult. The "purist" answer is vote for local

> candidate but pragmatically there is a need to

> take the wider view. In practical terms only

> voters in swing / marginal seat have any impact on

> the election result and they are the ones that

> must consider most carefully.

Perhaps MM, you will allow me to expand the remit of this debate further by asking in this age of political disillusionment, serious debate should be given to the reform of the electoral system. If only a tiny minority of the population's vote matters (i.e. those in marginal, winnable seats) and in some places turnout, even for general elections, is falling below 40% then surely a switch to a form of proportional representation is now needed?

I'll vote Labour at the next GE, not because I like Harman, or Jowell, (frankly I loathe both of them) but because I'm voting on a national level.

What does irk me though is that when I have canvassed for the Labour Party at election time, the national/local perceptions of most people are horribly skewed. At local elections, people will moan about national issues (Iraq, NHS, etc) and vote accordingly despite this being irrelevant. And yet, come the GE I hear people whinge about local issues (street lighting, council housing etc) but blame the national government rather than the local council. It is, quite frankly, infuriating.

[mockney piers]

I must say that I've generally warmed to the idea of proportional representation, despite its many pitfalls, because in my entire GE voting life not one paper through that ballot box has mattered one iota as I've had the joy of living in safe seats.

I have been known to vote pragmatically on local issues, but saldy my choices to end to be even more marginal than in the nationals

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Do you not think DC that rather than introduce proportional representation there should be compulsory voting?

Universal suffrage took quite a time to achieve and it grieves me that some people are so wishywashy about elections.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I am pro-PR and pro compulosry voting (allowing for a "none of the above" option)

[Moos]

In Belgium, you are fined if you don't vote. However, they also pay extraordinary amounts of tax, so presumably are happy to pay for the admin behind the fine.